A definition from the speyborn glossary:

Snap T
A change of direction cast with no back cast. This cast is performed with the upstream arm and used when there is no wind, or an upstream wind. This cast uses and aggressive, vertical straight line path snap at the start of the cast.

Snap Z
A change of direction cast with no back cast. This cast is performed with the upstream arm and used when there is no wind, or an upstream wind. This cast uses and aggressive, angled straight line path snap at the start of the cast.

 

Thanks for that

In the glossary of Spey Casting by Simon, Second Edition, Snap Z is not included. Thanks for providing info from the glossary you have.

 

I found this:
http://www.letsflyfish.com/skagit_snap_c_t_z.htm

According to this, and the Speyborn glossary, i'd say the vast majority of people are doing a 'snap z'...I know i don't do a vertical path at the start of the cast


or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2IJzOqsTK4&feature=player_detailpage#t=75


Agh, i dunno..

 

Hi Guys,

I took a gander at the U tube video and was surprised at how he set that up. I use long belly lines and although my cast ends going across the river, my 'snap' is a lot different than what the fellow demonstrated. I'd have to say that my snap is a fast & low sweep to set the line into the anchor and then I quickly sweep it up and send out the fly. This is done usually with around 60 feet of head and 14 feet of leader out the tip top. I'm pretty sure that if I were video taped while fishing my casts may cover many of the letters of our alphabet I saw similarities between the video and what I do but also a pretty wide difference.

I always enjoy when these topics come up because I am able to learn / figure out what it is that I've been up to. There aren't many 2 hand casters where I fish and generally when I do see one I don't want to use them as something to emulate. I learned a lot by watching some fellows from Europe this past August. We fished together for 8 days and one of these gentlemen was the smoothest and most consistent casters I had ever seen. I spent roughly 16 hours a day watching him cast and took away better style for myself.

Thanks for the video Brent, it was well filmed and I could clearly see what the man was demonstrating.

Ard

 

George talks about the differences in Rio's Modern Speycasting DVD.

For the Snap T He says to lift to 70 degrees. Then going Up, slightly out, under and away in a reverse C motion. The key to the motion to create the anchor point is the accelerated motion all the way to the bank.

He says the primary reason for the Snap T instead of the Z has to do with if the wind is coming at you from any direction. He states Initial anchor stroke is the primary difference in the two casts.

Also he uses reverse c or cirlce cast almost interchangeably with the snap T.

The only difference int the T and Z is the initial anchor stroke...Rise up and diagonally slice down, it is important to drive down with progressive speed. Snap Z is a more energy efficient cast, according to George.

I watched it through several times during lunch and tried to be pretty accurate with Georges description. Holler if you want me to send you the DVD.

 

Bah, I just want to fish... Wether it's a cackhanded snap Z wombat perry cast, I just want it swinging!

 

Yeah me also - once I read the glossary when I thought I had been casting the snap T, turns out to be a snap Z. I'm OK with that. Actually learned the cast by bringing the rod up vertical with a quick snap back down. Then I noted that when I raised the rod angled out over the water and snap down towards the near bank - the anchor would angle more towards the near bank behind my casting shoulder. So it simply made it easier to learn and get a wide change in direction.

I've seen the initial lift, snap and sweep done differently: Some do it in a wide reversed C with very little snap. The fly tends to travel higher in the air this way. Others do the quick snap and the fly travels much lower over the water as it comes up-stream to set the anchor, at least in my casts it does.

But I wonder; when do you initiate the sweep? Do you prefer (as I do) to chase back after the fly once it clears the tip-top?

Or, do you wait until it has landed up-stream of you?

 

Fishon4evr
"But I wonder; when do you initiate the sweep? Do you prefer (as I do) to chase back after the fly once it clears the tip-top? "

Based on some time with Riveraddict and personal experience,very much prefer to start sweep from the spot my rod tip finds at the end of the snap: near bank down stream, low to the water. No extra motion, load early and continuously, works really well.

 

When I do these casts, which is getting less frequent for some reason, I find that my snap "T" is more out in front of me - I'm actually not really putting the tip under the line on the snap cast-to-anchor (much like what you see in Eoin's last set of casts in the vid) - and the snap "z" tends to be closer in to me and the rod definitely goes under the line (also the same with my circle c). And which is done when depends on wind, direction of target, what's to my right (river left), what line/rod I'm using, the day of the week, my disposition, whether I've caught a fish yet, my bank account balance, and whether I've had 5 cups of coffee. And my Skagit lines are not getting much use these days so I definitely don't know what I'm talking about.

 

My brother...

.....and if you get the timing wrong, with a weighted fly, when that lead-head/barbell/copper tube hits the blank, it is the Snap U (snap you) cast


Mike

... why I'm usually ding some variation of a circle spey...

 

The Snap - U

.....and if you get the timing wrong, with a weighted fly, when that lead-head/barbell/copper tube hits the blank, it is the Snap U (snap you) cast


Mike

 

For quite a while, I thought I was doing the Snap T, but was apparently using the snap C (being a slower, looping downstream layout), until this engaging bloke stopped by the other day, and had me try a rather abrupt and quick downstream layout, which after looking at the diagrams, turns out to be the snap z. Probably similar to FishOn4evr's take.

Who would have guessed it could be so confusing?!! I'm with Brent, let's just get the fly in the water regardless of letter!

I'll take alphabet soup for $400, Alex.

 

Names and letters drawn aside, if you are using a sustained anchor isn't it all about setting the anchor in the correct position to execute the cast? I think some folks get too caught up in named casts. I know I've developed a unique set for me and my son whom I taught now casts completely different than I. Thoughts?

 

absolutely - anchor placement is where it's at and to borrow from speyducer - anchor placement has to be deliberate and not dependent on line, rod, river-right or left, and whatever else. It has to be in the correct spot to avoid hitting the rod, avoid a colliding loop, and avoid catching yourself also.

Anyhow, you can find the glossary, which does a good job in describing many different casts, casting errors and other terms related to spey casts or anchored casts (whichever) at: speyborn.com/glossary.pdf

 

Mike McCune has an interesting variation he has been playing around with. He uses a slow high vertical lift with his bottom hand positioned slightly inside (behind) his left hip. This motion brings the line back up under the rod - he then drops the tip back to the water. This positions the line very close to the body. His main issue with typical circle casts is it positions the line a bit farther out from the body and in Skagit casting closer is generally better when you begin the out and around sweep

 

Saw him do that at Two Hands. Amazing! And the line ends up not even six inches from his body. There is a knack, however...wish someone could get his permission to video tape that move and post it on spaypages or youtube or where ever. I need to see it again and again.

 

"ferrari, latigra, blue steel.

theyre all the same face, i feel like im taking crazy pills."

 

Al Buhr in his Two Handed Fly Casting book explains that:
"The Snap Z Cast utilizes the same lift and ">" move as in the Snap T Cast. The "snap" is done with slightly less thrust, allowing the fly and leader to set in the direction of the forward cast. In the Snap T Cast the fly and leader unroll and set upstream in the opposite direction of the forward cast. The leader position is the key to this cast. The Snap Z sets the leader to the anchor point in the direction of the cast. This allows the line to unroll off the water surface and provides a smooth, efficient exit at the end of the cast. This positioning of the front of the line in the direction of the cast is preferable for sinking lines."
A full explanation and photo are available on page 37 of his book.

 

My fishing partner and I have evolved a very close version of the Mike McCune style.

Slow lift and a very shallow upstream loop down to the water. The more shallow (narrow approx. 6 inches) the downward loop the closer the fly line lands to your body.
Another helpful technique is to pull back on the rod butt slightly when completing the downward loop, this minimizes the amount of line forward of the rod tip,,, very important with shorter Skagit heads.
We have the rod tip ending toward the bank side relative to the start of the lift, this protects the rod from "snapped tip" casting syndrome.

The closer the fly line water borne loop to your body the better the loading on the sweep.

Regards,
FK