Hi, this might seem a strange question but I'd be interested in getting some feedback on casting distance. I have been flyfishing single handed rods for over 30 years, but early days (3 -5 months) into my spey experience. I was just wondering what would be a rough estimate, regarding casting distance for a 11' 6, 3 wt Redington Claymore, with a 300 Grain Spey lite scandi integrated, 24' head with a SA float mono shooting line? Thanks
Casting Distance
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Narralakes
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I agree but "practicing correctly" is also a thorny topic. Introduced to Spey casting by a friend who is an amazing caster but not so good at teaching, I am mainly self taught.
I was lucky to work with Chris Rownes for an hour or so at a recent Fly Show and watched, cast and learned a lot until the Icelanders lured me away with the shots of vodka. I have had several hours of single hand casting instructions from an instructor who is the current director of a recognized school in New York. She teaches a very traditional style but also primarily uses a constant tension cast for salt and recently picked up a switch rod because of tendonitis. In her class, she only demonstrates the traditional style and when I am goofing off, she will ask what it am doing. I usually retort that I am doing my Tim Rajeff crane imitation or Lefty's Roll Dump Cast which usually gets a laugh. But I also believe in not doing anything that aggravates an existing condition. I go by the famous quote, " You don't want to cast like Lefty, you want to cast like yourself"-Lefty Kreh. Just because someone video taped it, wrote it in a book or has an IFFF MCI certificate does not mean it is correct or even a good idea.
I took a class from a certified Spey instructor and thought he didn't understand the basics of physics or the dynamics of casting and was teaching wrong things. And learned some incredible techniques never published from guides that resulted in an extra generous tip for them.
I was lucky to work with Chris Rownes for an hour or so at a recent Fly Show and watched, cast and learned a lot until the Icelanders lured me away with the shots of vodka. I have had several hours of single hand casting instructions from an instructor who is the current director of a recognized school in New York. She teaches a very traditional style but also primarily uses a constant tension cast for salt and recently picked up a switch rod because of tendonitis. In her class, she only demonstrates the traditional style and when I am goofing off, she will ask what it am doing. I usually retort that I am doing my Tim Rajeff crane imitation or Lefty's Roll Dump Cast which usually gets a laugh. But I also believe in not doing anything that aggravates an existing condition. I go by the famous quote, " You don't want to cast like Lefty, you want to cast like yourself"-Lefty Kreh. Just because someone video taped it, wrote it in a book or has an IFFF MCI certificate does not mean it is correct or even a good idea.
I took a class from a certified Spey instructor and thought he didn't understand the basics of physics or the dynamics of casting and was teaching wrong things. And learned some incredible techniques never published from guides that resulted in an extra generous tip for them.
That is so wrong that a certified Spey Casting Instructor was like that. But did you know enough yourself to challenge him.
It is my firm belief that many people underestimate the number of lessons required to both cast well and to understand casting well.
It took me approximately 70 to 80 two hour lessons on both grass and water plus treble that number practicing on my own to get my single hand advanced qualification with AAPGAI . This was over two years plus a bit.
The teaching side was drilled into me by my mentor.
We were still casting together for fun single hand and to try and increase our knowledge and I spent a year with him with the Two Hander. I had to defer the assessment twice due to an unfortunate illness diagnosis.
Maybe I was slow to learn but I know that the odd lesson here and there would just not work.
This is born out even with the limited amount of teaching I have been able to do.
It depends on how far you want to take things. Some will say sadly I was was too driven and I agree. It is hard to see how anyone qualified was not driven.
I wish I had not waited to the latter stages of my life before going on this journey. Never thought about it until I watched my Mentor cast by shear good fortune and.was inspired.
Never ever thought I could ever be good enough.
How many hours of lessons does it take to be able to make all the Spey casts with either hand to a nice standard. I do not know other than it will be quite a few.
Easy in the UK to find a qualified Instructor that is close by. I get the feeling that is not the case in many countries.
Frustrating.
Mike
It is my firm belief that many people underestimate the number of lessons required to both cast well and to understand casting well.
It took me approximately 70 to 80 two hour lessons on both grass and water plus treble that number practicing on my own to get my single hand advanced qualification with AAPGAI . This was over two years plus a bit.
The teaching side was drilled into me by my mentor.
We were still casting together for fun single hand and to try and increase our knowledge and I spent a year with him with the Two Hander. I had to defer the assessment twice due to an unfortunate illness diagnosis.
Maybe I was slow to learn but I know that the odd lesson here and there would just not work.
This is born out even with the limited amount of teaching I have been able to do.
It depends on how far you want to take things. Some will say sadly I was was too driven and I agree. It is hard to see how anyone qualified was not driven.
I wish I had not waited to the latter stages of my life before going on this journey. Never thought about it until I watched my Mentor cast by shear good fortune and.was inspired.
Never ever thought I could ever be good enough.
How many hours of lessons does it take to be able to make all the Spey casts with either hand to a nice standard. I do not know other than it will be quite a few.
Easy in the UK to find a qualified Instructor that is close by. I get the feeling that is not the case in many countries.
Frustrating.
Mike
There’s casting and then there is actual practice where we are learning something, here is an example
Yep we have to know how to practice
Just making repeated complete casts has limited value.
Limited time on the video to go into more detail.. My own practice drill beaks the cast down much further.
My mentor goes totally nuts if I start a session making casts.
Trying to teach this way is challenging.
Just making repeated complete casts has limited value.
Limited time on the video to go into more detail.. My own practice drill beaks the cast down much further.
My mentor goes totally nuts if I start a session making casts.
Trying to teach this way is challenging.
Observation is the key even if you insist on just casting by taking what I call the 10 second rule and looking at where your anchor was how big it was by the ripples in the water where your hands are how the rod is etc simple observations can make a big difference overall and is the real work
I’m known for saying if you don’t know what your doing right how can you repeat it and if you don’t know what your doing wrong how can you fix it ?
Knowing what is wrong is just as important
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i love these types of threads. they always wind around from original ask. i'm waiting for the "fish are out in front" thread direction.
my first question to sports - show me what you got.
and then go from there.
enjoy the journey. it's supposed to be fun.....
my first question to sports - show me what you got.
and then go from there.
enjoy the journey. it's supposed to be fun.....
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... there's lots casting faults but only a handful common enough to warrant identifying. But since casting faults stem from some deviation of translation and rotation it seems - to me at least - those aspects would be part of the topic. And because distance is easier with longer lines extending the translation part while delaying the rotation should also be mentioned.
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Yo Voodoo
You don’t always cast to the “fish in front”. Over 30 years ago I was freezing my ass off standing on a milk crate
(Ladders now I know) on Pyramid lake bombing a homade shooting head. The guy next to me was maybe casting charitably 15 feet when he let out a big whoop. He nailed a 10 pound Lahonton Cutt on his backcast. Go figure.
You don’t always cast to the “fish in front”. Over 30 years ago I was freezing my ass off standing on a milk crate
(Ladders now I know) on Pyramid lake bombing a homade shooting head. The guy next to me was maybe casting charitably 15 feet when he let out a big whoop. He nailed a 10 pound Lahonton Cutt on his backcast. Go figure.
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Would you mind explaining this in simple terms? In my simple mind, it's not helpful.
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Translation and rotation relates to using the rod as lever.
Translation is how a rod is moved, first to initiate a cast by straightening, moving and lifting a fly line in a singular direction, and then rotating the rod on the fulcrum as a lever to propel the fly line either into a back cast or to anchor it, and then rotating the rod once again on the fulcrum for the forward cast. It is the technique and moving the rod differently results in casting faults.
A longer line, or longer casting length beyond tip top requires the translation part to be extended so as to delay the rotation.
Form relates to coordinated movements made by the caster, and coupled with technique for how to cast and practice.
Hope that helps.
Also known as basic engineering analysis:There’s casting and then there is actual practice where we are learning something, here is an example
Break a complex problem into simpler component parts.
Find solutions for an individual component.
Collect new data and repeat as necessary till an optimal solution is found.
Conceptually simple, requires discipline.
As usual for a distance thread lots of religion few direct answers. Below is my personal experience. Yours may differ. I do have the advantage of access to a measured course where I can judge the actual distance the fly lands at.
As a rough rule of thumb, for a "good" cast -- mostly straight, leader turns over fully -- you lose about 10% distance in slack, tiny curves in the line, slight deviations of angle, etc. Absolutely perfect casts landing 100% straight and fully tight are vanishingly rare.
In a practical fishing situation you are not going to achieve the full potential of the equipment. Rarely do you have stable footing, you are in current possibly in deep water, you don't have ideal casting angles, wind is at inconvenient angles, and weird currents are messing with your running line. The last is often the limiting factor in distance, there is a limit to how much is not only possible, but that I'm willing to deal with in terms of running line out of the reel. And really light heads won't pull as much line as heavier ones anyway. I like to look at this as, what equipment would I need for a given distance, reasonably achievable with that equipment? My mental table is something like the following:
11ft 3wt + 30ft head + 25' running line + 12 ft leader less 10% = 70ft.
13ft 7wt + 35ft scandi/skagit head + 40' running line + 6-12ft leader less 10% = 85-90ft
14' 8wt + 50ft midbelly + 40' running line + 12 ft leader less 10% = 105ft
15' 9wt + 60ft long head + 50' running line + 12ft leader less 10% = 125ft
IMO those would be good goals for practical fishing under realistic conditions. Most casters will get less, the best will get more, especially with ideal conditions.
compare competition equipment:
15' 12wt + 70ft head + 70-120' running line + 12 ft leader less 10% = 150-200ft depending on who is casting
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There is casting and there is fishing. I ran out of digits a long time ago to count the number of anecdotes old grey beards in the fly fishing world shared about other anglers casting OVER fish.
On a good day for steelhead, I stand on shore or ankle deep and cast 2 or 3 metres from shore.
Once in a blue moon, a 25 to 30 metre cast is helpful. That is why practicing while NOT fishing is useful.
On a good day for steelhead, I stand on shore or ankle deep and cast 2 or 3 metres from shore.
Once in a blue moon, a 25 to 30 metre cast is helpful. That is why practicing while NOT fishing is useful.
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