My favorite term is Mush Flex.

The rod hits a wall and cannot deliver any additional power or strength into the cast.

Regards,
FK

 

My all time favorite term ever used to define one of our two handed designs is "Klunky".

... Saw this term used when it was shared with a magazine reviewer a few seasons ago.

Never really figured out if this term was meant to be used as a means by which to define an audio or physical characteristic of the rod blank ... };^) ... !!!

I think the term "Wooden Stick" also appeared in the same review ... Ouch !!!

Meiz

 

Certainly there are members on this forum who can explain "progressive" action. I always understood it to mean a "full" flexing rod...that would be into the cork when fully loaded. I've cast lots of rods that don't fit that defiinition, well maybe they would at extremes but those extremes require so much input from the caster that it makes them "wall hangers" for me.

What about "parabolic"? it seems to suggest a compound taper. I've no knowledge of rod tapers but do know what I like and now I'm wondering if it isn't the parabolic taper that fits. Assuming here that there are 2 sets (maybe even 3) of tapers within the blank. The term taper seems to indicate an even progression throughout the blank. Maybe a parabolic taper divides the rod into sections where the tip, mid and butt all have different tapers? Seems this could produce a more lively feeling rod with the capacity to do additional "catapulting" as it releases?

check this out. http://clarksclassicflyrodforum.yuku.com/topic/16644

 

i think alot of the terms that get thrown around have stemmed from (in fly fishing atleast) from the single hand rod world, i could be wrong but there appears to be more terms for those rods than for spey or double hand rods.
An example: orvis use the term tip flex and mid flex and full flex and give ratings in accordance with that ie 9.5 7.0 and so on, what does the number relate to? And what does tip flex etc mean? Just the tip bends and thats it? The helios switch rods are clapped as a tip flex 9.5, does this mean they only bend in the tip and the rest of the rod stays somehow firm? Does full flex mean parabolic? Well in the single hand rods from orvis it doesnt as they (from my experience) flex deep but with very little power, thus the term slow was coined, cant bully these rods at all or they simply fold under load and bounce around after the cast has been fired, if the term tip flex is what it basically suggests it does how can this be a nice rod to cast with? Even under the weight of a skagit head it sort of suggests the tip will flex and the rest of the rod will do nothing, rendering the caster with the job of pushing all that weight around with the rod not helping, by all accounts though the helios rods are Sweet to cast with so whos selling what now?
Loomis list the dredger as fast, fast what? Fast recovery? Fast tip? Fast money from your pocket? :chuckle:
Broomstick is a favorite word in my circles, sums up a very stiff lifeless rod.
Twigstick, self explanatory really.
sh1tstick. As above.
Noodle, super soft, like casting wet spaghetti.
Killer curve! Really Sweet bend with nice power throughout the rod, all balance with no bias weight in the rod.
Stump puller/brute stick. Think the old loomis mega series, awful to cast but good to lift fish, the choice for many years of the pelagic fishermen over here, good for lifting big tuna and gts etc.

 

a rod with progressive TAPER has a skinny tip, which widens in diameter in a linear manner from tip to butt. Absolutely straight-line taper. Think T&T. Balls-to-the-wall performance in the hands of a highly skilled caster. Demanding in terms of lining. The progressive tapers have a fairly narrow sweet spot for each caster, but once there it is a beautiful thing.

a rod with progressive ACTION does the same thing but with a few tricks built in. The modulus mix in the scrim can be adjusted in ways that makes the performance profile of the rod linear, so that the flex and casting qualities are truly progressive from tip to butt. They are much more forgiving and versatile rods, and can handle a tremendous range of lines and styles of casting. Think Meiser Highlander Classic.

I love words. I won't go into my lexicon of terms used in describing rods, but the range goes from pornographic to kosher.

 

a rod with progressive TAPER has a skinny tip, which widens in diameter in a linear manner from tip to butt. Absolutely straight-line taper. Think T&T.

I like that description: straight-line taper. Do think the Sage vt2 7130 is similar? Death star? Any others come to mind?

Anybody else have other language they would use to describe T&T type rods?

Bob- That story is hilarious. Your work is obviously well loved.

 

hmm I dunno what to say.

There are rods that cast good and there are those that don't... that's the only distinction that really matters

There are ultra fast rods that hardly bend that cast great and those that don't

there are ultra slow rods that flex to the cork under their own weight some cast well others don't.

if you have to hunt for " the right line" for a rod it's not a good rod.

a good rod should cast any type line in it's designated line weight, it should feel exceptional and should NOT "hit a wall" until it is beyond a reasonable fishing distance.

some things can be over thought rod design is one of them...

it's quite simple put in layers here, take out layers there, quicken the taper here increase diameter there.. do that until the rod is perfect..

anything other than that is..... well marketing not rod design

 

Rob- This is mostly a matter of me trying to wrap my head around what's out there. There are so many rods. I don't have the benefit of any experience in rod building, so I'm left to compare rods to each other in hopes of someday understanding why I like some and not others. Care to name an ultra fast rod in a lower line weight (6?) that you think casts great?

 

I take: Fast, tip action and high Action Angle the same and in the other end slow, full action and low action angle the same. Fast recovery is a result of rod stiffness, total weight of rod blank and high AA.

This is a simple wire model of over head cast forward stroke of fast and slow action single hand rods which shows the performance advantage of tip action rod. Tip action rod chord becomes shorter than full action rod when they are bent the same amount and therefore with tip action rod it is possible to use wider casting arch <---> and still achieve Straight Line Path.

Both rods have same stiffness, #wt and Effective Rod Number so they have the same amount of potential energy loaded when bent to 1/3 of the rod length.

When casting a single hand rod there is also a possibility to haul and to time the haul right it can be used to control line loop form and accelerate fly line to still higher speed and this seems to be more efficient with tip action rod.

But it seems like most don't like very fast action rod for double hand Spey casting. I think it has something to do with the D-loop and the power a caster can produce.

When Spey casting and the line is in the D-loop it might be that slightly round arch of rod tip is more efficient to lift the line from the anchor so SLP is not as important than when over head casting.

Or because the casting stroke power becomes higher there is a possibility for fast action rod tip to dip too much (which with SH rod results the tailing loop). With TH rod there is less tailing loops because anchor and rod tip are usually not aligned vertically but if line path gets a dip the efficiency of cast suffers.

Esa

 

Hey Trev,

I think that the information found here will greatly help you understand how/why composite tubes used for fishing rod blanks actually perform work:

http://www.common-cents.info/

And another:

Essays on Fly Fishing by E.C. Powell <> Google this title and you'll find sources for this publication.

Excellent theory/history of our sport and the tools we use for it.

Meiz

 

Good post, Bender.

I appreciate that, Bob. I've read the common cents stuff. I'm actually guilty of secretly setting my rods up against each other to see if the loaded profiles matches what I find on the water. I don't try and quantify or predict loading needs, as I let my hands do that. I mostly look at strength distribution in the rod and against other rods, noting parallels and divergences. The regression in my MKS jumps right out vs my Highlander.

For myself, I need both types of rods. In a nutshell, I match the tip to the task. A light fly gets a lighter tipped rod, heavy fly gets a heavier tipped (lower flexing) rod. As nonsense is one of my first loves in life, I sometimes think of rods as engines, and consider this a question of HP (fast tip) vs Torque (low flex) and match the rod to the pulling problem, hence my reference in another thread to the MKS as the Cummins Diesel of Spey.

Like I said, nonsense. All nonsense.

Edit: I should note that the MKS is a very versatile rod as well, as many are.

 

hmm I dunno what to say.

There are rods that cast good and there are those that don't... that's the only distinction that really matters

There are ultra fast rods that hardly bend that cast great and those that don't

there are ultra slow rods that flex to the cork under their own weight some cast well others don't.

if you have to hunt for " the right line" for a rod it's not a good rod.

a good rod should cast any type line in it's designated line weight, it should feel exceptional and should NOT "hit a wall" until it is beyond a reasonable fishing distance.

some things can be over thought rod design is one of them...

it's quite simple put in layers here, take out layers there, quicken the taper here increase diameter there.. do that until the rod is perfect..

anything other than that is..... well marketing not rod design
__________________

Well said. The best does not market his great rods on internet blogs........ !!!

 

the best does not market his great rods on internet blogs........ !!!

...and who might that be?