[Bob Pauli]

Subject: Wulff 30 pound Oval Backing vs. 30 pound Micron bacfking
My questions for board members: Do you have experience with Wulff Oval fly line backing? Have you been able to place more Wulff 30 pound Oval backing on a reel than 30 pound Cortland Micron backing?

What prompted these questions was using my local fly shop's line machine to measure length of Wulff Oval backing I had spooled by hand earlier this year. I use Tibor Gulfstream reels and have historically been able to fit 225 yards of Micron 30 pound backing plus a WindCutter 8.9.10. This 225 average is per local fly shops line machines measurements.

Earlier this year, for the first time I installed Wulff Oval 30# backing by hand [also a first--never again, it took approx. 1400 revolutions] and had always assumed that the length was 225 yards +/-. One might ask who in hell counts reel revolutions? I can't help it, I'm an engineer!

Back to the subject. Recently I removed the WC8.9.10 and Wulff backing from a Gulfstream and today replaced them using the local fly shop machine to learn exactly how much backing was present. Suprise--296 yards!

Visual inspection of the Wulff 30 pound Oval backing shows no obvious change in dimensions as the backing is rotated, so perhaps a magnifying glass or microscope is needed. Visually the Wulff Oval backing is the same diameter as Cortland's 30 pound Micron.

I compared four types of backing and measured each one 12 times, threw out the high and low readings and averaged the remaining 10. Don't take these numbers as absolute because the act of measuring a braided line squeezes it, but I did my best. My micrometer measures to one-thousanth of an inch, not highly precise, but this isn't rocket science.

Following is the data:
Standard Backing
• Cortland 30 pound Micron [yellow]: Average diameter = 0.021 inches, range = 0.019 to 0.023 inches, a varying diameter throughout the spool of 0.004.

• Royal Wulff 30 pound Oval [chartreuse]: Avg. diam. = 0.020 inches; range = 0.020 to 0.021 inches, a varying diameter throughout the spool of 0.001

GSP Backing
• Cortland 30 pound Micronite [white]: Avg. diam = 0.016 inches; range = 0.014 to 0.018 inches, a variance of 0.004.

• Royal Wulff 45 pound GSP [chartreuse]: Avg. diam = 0.016 inches; range = 0.014 to 0.016 inches, a variance of 0.002

The averages for a couple of lines may look strange, but are the effect of rounding numbers to three decimal places.

U]Results

The Wulff Oval Backing Lines enjoy a slightly reduced line diameter of 0.001 inch in diameter and when combined with the more efficient packing of an oval compared to a circle, the fisherman has an opportunity to load more backing to his reel

One notes that the Wulff Oval line holds a more consistent diameter through a spool than does Cortland Micron, which in my opinion translates to quality.

Thirdly, Wulff Oval is as "handy, and easily and safely used as a Micron." In my case I was able to load 296 yards of Wulff Oval vs. the 225 yards with Micron.

Fourth, the Wulff Oval backing line knots well as does Cortland's Micron.

Pease give my your experience. It appears that the Wulff Oval backing gives the fisherman significantly higher reel capacity than Micron without the disadvantages of GSP.

 

[fredaevans]

I can't help it, I'm an engineer! ""

Bob, not much I can add to that .... except to suggest lots of bed rest, sitting quitely in a darkend room and drinking 'chilled fluids.' No TV, you're already far too worked up already.


Actually pretty darned interesting stuff; not seen the Wulff product before. Will have to troll the internet for spools of same.
fae

 

[beau purvis]

too far

Bob,
fred is right. you are starting to worry me. i have lived thru the " please pass the chain saw" and "whats this?. le **** de box" comments. this ,however is over the top. go find a place to fish or hunt something. Beau

 

[John Desjardins]

Bob thats an interesting report.
I disagree with Fred & Beau, about being over the top, but then I am also an engineer and understand exactly where your coming from. If you send me a foot or so of the Wulff line & I'll double check it on a microscope for size, ovalness, etc. There, my eggheadedness is exposed. :devil:

 

[Bob Pauli]

John D

John,
Thanks for the offer. Please send your address so I can send the Wulff Oval backing to you.
Bob P

 

[Bob Pauli]

Fred & Beau

Many thanks for the replies. This morning my wife, a left handed blonde, laughed uproariously at your postings. Made my morning!

John D--Thankfully some folks get it!

 

[fredaevans]

Best line I ever read vis a vis folks in your trade,

was something to the effect that 'mech. eng'ers build bombs, civil eng'rs build targets.' For you on Fred's Friday Funnies distribution list you'll remember it from a week or so back.

 

[John Desjardins]

Fred I was taught it differently.

Mechanical engineers build toilets while civil engineers handle what comes out . But then I did study mechanical engineering :devil:, and both are essential to modern life.

 

[fredaevans]

Well John, a good point until you

meet the guy who 'builds the bombs.' Then we're back to buckets... or 'behind a tree.'
fae

Well, maybe dubious credit where credit is not due ... how did this thread get from here to there? DO NOT ANSWER.
:whoa:

 

[fredaevans]

Cross hairs, ground zero, target of oppertunity?

Too many possibilities.... but back to my last post.
fae

 

[John Desjardins]

Bob, I'm sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Bob Pauli]

John,
No worries mate! Somebody has to stand up for technical integrity.

I mailed the backing samples to you today.

 

[John Desjardins]

Bob, the samples were received. I'll get the data posted here after Christmas. Now, how much engineering hubris should I put in for the non engineers? :devil:

A couple of initial observations are that the Wulff Oval 30# test, and to a lesser degree Cortland micronite are 4 sided rather than round. That may be part of the difference in line capacity. Also the GSP lines strike me as being a saw waiting to happen.

 

[John Desjardins]

Some more data on the various backings. I added Greenspot -dacron because I had a spool of it at home. More info wil lbe added later today.

 

[JR SPEY]

John,

I think you might need to check your records. I have a spool of 30# GreenDot and I can tell just by feel that it is considerably larger in diameter than 30# Cortland Micron. Am I missing something obvious, or did you just execute a typo. I'll have to measure the stuff myself after I find my micrometer.

 

[John Desjardins]

The Greenspot surprised me as well, I was planning to double check it.

 

[John Desjardins]

Measuring the Greenspot by micrometer, I got a diameter of 0.019 - 0.021 inches. which is in line with what I measured on the microscope.

For reference the method I used to measure the line diameters is detailed belowlace the line on the stage of the

1. tie a 295 gram (~ 10.4 oz) weight 18 " from the end of the line and then tie a second similiar weight to the end of the line.
2. Place the line with the weights holding it in tension in the optical path of a microscope.
3. Take a picture of the line with its outside edges in focus. Move the line and repeat four times
4. Using image analysis software, calibrated to the camera/microscope combination measure the line diameter by placing five circles tangent to the outer edge of the line on the each picture as shown in picture below ( its actually the green spotline) and measuring the radius of each circle in um.
5. record data and calculate average diameter
   [/list=1]
   
   JRSPEY, I aggree with you that the greenspot result looks fishy, but its what I've gotten by 2 different methods. The only thing I can think of is that the spool with ~ 1000 yards on it now is marked as IGFA line so it may test out as 30# max breaking strength, while the backing may exceed that by a good margin.

 

[John Desjardins]

One final picture, comparing the lines.

A- Greenspot 30#
B- Wulff 30# Oval
C- Wulff 45# GSP
D- Orvis 35 # Big Game GSP
E- Cortland 30# Micron
F- Cortland 30# Micronite

 

[Smolt]

Where can one buy the Wulff Oval 30? I have checked a number of shops online, but no luck. How much does it cost? Thanks and Happy New Year to all.

Charles

 

[fredaevans]

Now I know why 'ashtrays' and potty seats cost

several thousand of dollars each.
:hehe:

But some interesting measurements here from John's post, if I'm reading them right. (Page 1 of this thread).

It appears that the 35# Orvis and 45# Wulff GSP, while stonger lines, have the smallest "average diameters." And the 45# Wulff product had a 'standard deviation' which wasn't that far above the much smaller lines. Also noted some backing such as the 30# Cortland Micron was pretty chubby stuff when compared to the 45# Wulff GSP (Wulff being a smige over 65% of the diameter of the Cortland Micron and a 66% increase in line test).

One way or the other the QC on the manufacture of these backing must be pretty darned good to have an average of 5/10,000 of an inch.
fae

But back to someone elses question: Where can you buy this stuff?
fae