[juro]

Turns out that a case of mistaken identity, two over-worked guys, and the perils of email added up to this whole mess! Since being contacted by Bruce and Dana, I have discovered that my reaction was unwarranted afterall. There will be a line provided to the FORUM for the support we provided to communicate events, interest and information about this line since way back.

Thanks to Bruce's willingness to accomodate, anyone who wishes to will have a chance to try the new line for a week or two before sending to the next interested party.

I will be casting it on a local river (void of steelhead, unfortunately) through Sunday June 23rd. If you are one of the people who did not make it to the Sandy River Spey Clave and would like to try the line for a couple of weeks, just post a reply here. Domenic? John? Just say the word.

Any evaluation forms provided by SA will be photocopied and sent with the line. When you pass it on to the next person, please make a copy, and so on and so forth. Of course show your courtesy by filling the forms out and providing them to Bruce. Make sure you mention that you are a FORUM gear tester.

Per the old thread: there was little value in preserving the misguided energy coming from myself as well as others; it has been archived by request.

Thank you Dana for providing this Spey resource; Bruce - thanks for your generous support.

Way - let's work out a much more straight-forward, "put it on the table" approach if you should ever work on another line.

Juro

 

[sinktip]

After everyone else that wants a shot at it have had a chance, I would love to play with it for a week.

sinktip

 

[pmflyfisher]

Heckk I will just buy one if these if the majority of you spey experts say this is the holy grail of lines. I am in the market for one, just waiting to pull the trigger, definitely must by September for the fall runs though.

I anxiously await the first pilot tests and reports.

 

[juro]

That's Northeast, Northwest and Midwest so far... Gardener? Malcom? Per?

 

[fredaevans]

"ST" (after Hal) I'll send you the line.

Do you want that on a reel or no?
fe

 

[Gardener]

Thanks for the offer, Juro. I wouldn't regard myself as sufficiently expert to voice an opinion in this distinguished company - also the number of other spey lines of which I can claim 'in depth' experience is fairly limited, so I'm not sure I am qualified to make comparative judgements.

HOWEVER...Andy Wren was trying to organise a Spey Meet back in the spring, which unfortunately had to be cancelled owing to bad weather and dangerously high river conditions. I think (and hope) he may be going to put together another towards the end of the year. It won't be on the scale of your clave; just a few guys putting a few outfits through their paces one Sunday, but I hope it will nevertheless be a worthwhile and fun event. If it happens and the line is still 'in circulation' then, I would be more than happy to have a chance to borrow it and hopefully allow a few people to give it an airing in the waters of the Thames. I wonder how the line will work on a Grant Vibration 15' greenheart, which I intend to take along for a bit of fun!

Andy - any news about the rescheduled meet?

 

[sinktip]

Fred,

Thanks for the kind offer. I would enjoy casting this line but I want to wait until everyone else has had a chance. My interest is more curiosity as I am likely not a good candidate to purchase this setup. Nothing negative about the line, it just is not likely to be a good match for the majority of the fishing I do. That doesn't mean I don't want to play with it though

Regards,
Duggan

 

[fredaevans]

"ST" no problem. If you change your mind..

I'll send you the line up in an overnight bag, return bag included. Play, and send baby back to Father.

 

[spey_bubba]

i feel compelled to post this reply to juro's thread. the line SA has sent to juro is a prototype 9/10 line (#76), although the line sent to dana is a final production 8/9 XLT. i believe this particular 9/10 proto to be light in the forward taper, and overcorrects something i had been working on previously. further modifications to the 9/10 are planned prior to full release.

a careful reading of any of my posts regarding original line splicing recipies (predating the forum, and posted on the old ISC site), as well as information regarding the SA XLT lines will reveal that my posts were to provide information purely in response to queries regarding these lines. i started no new threads on the lines, and did not "advertise" the lines, except to provide detailed information to board members' inquiries, as i understood the function of the forum to represent.

there have been no events or special interest issues that have been put forward by SA or this line, and if answering board members' questions regarding a semi-open source project is advertising or represents some "tactic" to promote the line, then i think a careful look at other very overt postings that have not been singled out for attention is warranted.

i suppose this post will likely be pulled off the board, as previous threads and posts have been, but if it remains, i would like to thank those board members who have maintained an open mind and the original spirit of how this all got started, who tried the original line formulas, and who realize that all this line stuff represents just another fishing tool to make spey casting fun and productive.

this will be my last post on this board; tight lines...

 

[juro]

Let it go dude! I did! Onward and upward. Don't get me started :devil:

Anyway - I have spooled the line up for testing and will pass it along to those who asked in the midwest, northwest and europe. If you think I should ask Bruce for a different version, let me know.

Man, did I have to strip some backing to get that line on the reel! Heck if it all casts, it's all good.

I truly appreciate the opportunity to test cast this line and to share the experience with fellow members as we pass it on to other interested parties.

Juro

 

[watersprite]

Juro,

What an absolutely lame farewell to a really great and likeable fellow. I guess one should expect as much since you have actively worked to ostracize the gentleman while marginalizing his impact with the membership with innuendo and rants about "marketing schemes" and "free advertizing". This is, and always has been, a petty little turf war instigated by your Canadian compadres, Admiral Jetsled and the Thompson Speymaster. I sensed this just prior to the Sandy clave, to be confirmed by our brief discussion the first day. Petty, childish and wrong.

I am not alone in this, Juro. From recent email, others are also seeing it for what it is. I would hope that others give an active voice to their condemnation of such handling.

You are wrong in your treatment of this fine man and should apologize.

Steven

 

[sinktip]

Ain't America great. Where else could you have a FREE site where every fool with an opinion was welcome to come on and trash the person who makes the site possible. What is that about biting the mouth that feeds you?

Come on Steven, let the attitude go. In the over two years I have been involved with this site, I can only think of 4 or 5 examples of rudeness in a post. Guess what, the name Watersprite is on all but one. :tsk_tsk:

Despite your frequent attacks, myself and many others here have tried to take the high road and help you out as you blindly blunder through trying to learn the sport. Why? Because we were all there once and someone helped us out. When it all comes down to it, heated discussions about jet sleds and spey lines aside, what really matters is passing on the knowledge and the tradition.

As for the issue between Way and Juro, that is between them. I sincerely doubt that you have the faintest idea of what is really behind this. If you did, I trust your sense of justice and fairness would at the very least kept you from weighing in on this issue. As an oldtimer once told me, and yes I deserved it, "it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

A couple weeks ago you were advised to take a chill pill. For what its worth, I suggest you up the dosage.

Duggan

 

[juro]

Farewell

What farewell? I suggested we keep the discussion going onward and upward. Besides I've heard this "last post" several times before.

Ah yes, email behind the scenes! Let's just say that you have no idea. I won't go there, private conversations will remain private.

Question: If the only thing you plan to bring to the table here is controversy, spite and trouble - why participate? If you plan to add no value, I'll be forced to support the opinions expressed in the emails I have received as well. I'd rather not, but the decision is in your own hands!

Juro,

What an absolutely lame farewell to a really great and likeable fellow. I guess one should expect as much since you have actively worked to ostracize the gentleman while marginalizing his impact with the membership with innuendo and rants about "marketing schemes" and "free advertizing". This is, and always has been, a petty little turf war instigated by your Canadian compadres, Admiral Jetsled and the Thompson Speymaster. I sensed this just prior to the Sandy clave, to be confirmed by our brief discussion the first day. Petty, childish and wrong.

I am not alone in this, Juro. From recent email, others are also seeing it for what it is. I would hope that others give an active voice to their condemnation of such handling.

You are wrong in your treatment of this fine man and should apologize.

Steven

 

[kush]

Fool?

L

 

[Eugene]

Watersprite, you have once again managed simultaneously to raise what may be a point worth examining and to divert all attention away from that point by adding personal insults to your arguments.

Sinktip, I disagree with you on a couple points. First, unless there is an unspoken code of "The Imperial Webmaster", Juro’s posts and actions are open to review and judgment just like the rest of us. Second, I don't believe that any personal communications between Way and Juro are relevant. Way's post mentioned only previous posts, and there are plenty of examples of cynical and accusatory responses to his posts, mostly by the people that WS mentioned.

I think it is unrealistic to deny that the discussion of spey lines has, at times, delved into the realm of pissing matches. I, for one, admire Way’s refusal to take part in them and I understand his decision to move on. Life’s too short.

Tight lines and screamin’ reels

 

[juro]

[1]Note: I can not speak for Dana here in the Speypages, this is his work and his dream - I am just a web guy helping Sean with the Speyclave.[/1]

Speaking for the Flyfishing Forum, the work of it's contributors, we may assume equal privileges (as you imply) provided we take equal responsibility. In other words, privileges are earned, not granted.

If it were about privileges, hypothetically speaking, I would argue that I have far out-earned the privileges I take on the Forum, which are in fact "none" as Eugene points out. Indeed we could argue about taking liberties, but rest assured, I have no interest in arguing. Yet somehow others think they have the right to make insults, accusations, demands, etc? There is a big misconception here. This is what Sinktip is referring to with his comments, which I agree with and appreciate. Funny how those who really add something to the Forum are not the same folks who are making these demands!

When you think about it, just the sheer fact that you feel free to pass judgement confirms that I do not take any special privileges on the Forum, so in fact I agree. Privileges are not at all why I started the Forum; certainly not as a place to perpetuate trivial pissing contests as a few folks tend to do.

In fact this whole trivial spat has nothing to do with the mission of the Forum; and it has already taken too much of our energy, which is what I mean by "onward and upward". Time to get out of the gutter - there are too many positive things to achieve (see the Big Brother Day reports for proof) and not enough sunrises and sunsets in the short time we have on this wonderful earth.

Sorry, there is no customer service department, no returns, no complaints department especially for those who have nothing to bring to the table. WSIWYG

Walk a mile in my shoes... you few folks who hold these petty grievances should go invest a few years in building a site (not to mention $), experience what I have experienced in this quagmire, ponder what I am pondering now, spend as much time as I did writing a sincere response in order to really understand what is going on here.

Until then, consider yourself a bantering few perpetuating a pissing contest that has long ended. Bigger fish to fry, onward and upward, miles to go before we sleep.

 

[juro]

For everyone else, sorry about the derailment.

I will have the line tested on my 10150-4 Sage 4pc Spey and will be ready to send it along to anyone who expresses an interest in trying it in earnest before passing it to the next member. You will be obligated to provide something to tell Bruce what you thought of the line, and pass it to the next person in line.

Everyone is welcome, just reply to this post to get on the list.

 

[andre]

juro,

send it my direction when you get a chance.

andre

 

[juro]

It will be my pleasure Andre! I have fond memories of hidden runs on your homewaters where it might be tested, as well as some big waters we've both fished with success over the years.

 

[Whiskey Dick]

You know this is a flyfishing Forum and something i have learned about flyfishermen is if you get 3 together and ask them to discuss flyfishing THEY WILL NEVER AGREE. Its like putting a Canadian in a barrel and telling him to p_ss in the corner,Its never going to happen . Now for all those north of the border THAT WAS A JOKE!!. If i still lived back in Wales i would have said it about the English!!. Hey since i now live in Oregon maybe i should have said it about the Washington folks . Life is too short for p_ssing matches, I have only been fly fishing for 30 years and i am still learning and if we all decide to stop posting on this board where the hell am i going to get my info from?. Way, i had a chance to say hi to you at the Sandy River Clave but did not get a chance to pick your brains about Scott Spey Rods or which of your lines will matche up to my rods, DON'T GO MAN, Stay and lets disscuss FLY FISHING single or 2 handed. Juro, i also got to meet you at the Spey Clave, again i just got to say hi very quickly, I hope to fish with both of you some day, may be not together but who knows :devil: . Back to what i am trying to say to you all, JUST MOVE ON and lets get talking and enjoying our fishing and learning from each other, Thats what the Forum is about and what i come here for,tight lines,Brian:smokin:
Oh Fred when are you going to let me try that new line out?????