[sva01]

I'm wondering what people have to say about the upgrade. I'm currently using the Windcutter tips with the compensator and am exploring the notion of going to a Mid Spey. I'm thinking that purchasing the upgrade would be an inexpensive way of experimenting with the longer belly. I'm using the Sage 9141 with a 9/10/11 WC. Any thoughts about which upgrade I should add to keep the grains consistent? Is it as simple as getting the 9/10/11 upgrade? What will the effect be on my tips by adding the upgrade? How much depth will I be sacrificing by using the floating upgrade instead of the compensator? I look forward to the responses!

Seth
Spey Pages subscriber

 

[t_richerzhagen]

RIO Specs

are found at http://www.rioproducts.com/pages/technical.asp?pic=techinfo.jpg
There is a table for depths of tips with and without compensator. The compensator appears to give an additional foot to two feet of fishing depth.

It partially depends on how the WC 9/10/11 loads the rod. If it is what RIO terms a type B, the upgrade will probably be too much for the rod.

 

[flytyer]

Prior to the RIO putting the MidSpey on the market, I experimented with Windcutter and the Upgrade. I found if I used the same size Upgrade, it overloaded the rod; but if I used one size smaller Upgrade, it worked like a charm. I found the same thing with the MidSpey prior to the introduction of the GrandSpey.

To be more specific about the Windcutter you are currently using, I'd recommend using the 8/9/10 Upgrade. Just remember to take out tip 2 and replace it with the Upgrade or you will overload the rod very, very badly.

 

[Rick J]

You might also compare the total grain weight using the Rio chart of the similar Midspey - then try to match as close as you can the WC with the extension - I think the Rio chart gives you the grains for all the component sections so you should be able to come up with total grain weight

 

[Grampa Spey]

As usual FlyTyer has probably nailed this.

Go with the smaller size upgrade.

I have the WC 678 upgrade for my WC 678. I have no idea where my tip two is, as the upgrade is now a permanent part of the WC.

I still prefer the MS 7/8 for my Sage 6126 or 7141 as my primary line for these rods.

However on the windy days, the spare spool loaded with the WC 678 with the upgrade becomes the flyline tool of choice. It works well with or w/o the tip compensator and all of the Rio 15' tips for that line weight. If I'm using an indicator on windy days, the leader with the indicator is looped on the end of the upgrade (tip one is not used). It will hammer a big indicator, tungsten bead and weight fly into or across the wind.

Yet with tip 1 and a 15' Rio Steelhead leader, it can do a great job with a dry fly or an emerger when a soft landing is needed.

 

[sva01]

It works well with or w/o the tip compensator and all of the Rio 15' tips for that line weight.

Grampa-
I'm confused...I'm probably just not understanding what you're trying to say. I was under the impression that the upgrade is meant to be used INSTEAD of the compensator or tip 2. Are you using it differently?

 

[Grampa Spey]

My WC upgrade has totally replaced my tip 2 for my WC 678. If there is a lot of wind, my WC 678 with the upgrade is my main line for my Sage 6126 or 7141. If I use sinking tips or the tip compensator, the tips or the tip compensator or both are attached to the factory installed loop.

If I'm using an indicator, tungsten bead and a nymph, I use the WC 678 with the upgrade and no tips added. I loop the leader directly to the factory installed end loop of the Upgrade.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Peters Question

How would you compare tip 2 vs. the upgrade for T-6 and T-8 tips turnover? I have the upgrade for a 7/8/9 but haven't used it yet as I figured tip turnover would be worse.

.

Try it and see how it works. Since you like the lighter lines, you may not like it.

My 678 upgrade with no tip 2 or 1 will cast and turnover every tip that I have in my WC 678 and MS 78 packages with or without the tip compensator including the new 8 tip on my 6126 and 7141. If I have a big fly, tip compensator and sinking tip connected to the upgrade, my 6126 will not do a decent snake roll with the compensator. Yet it will lift all of it up with double spey if I don't rush it.

 

[Mr. Kennedy]

So if I wanted to use the 7/8/9 WC + upgrade with a nine weight rod... What upgrade would you use? 6/7/8.... or 7/8/9? If I do the math... 710grains seems about right... and the 7/8/9 is 725gr. and minus 40 puts it at ..... 685gr. with the 6/7/8 upgrade? Is that right? Seems like a toss up to me. :Eyecrazy:
Let me know what you think.

Mr. Kennedy

 

[Grampa Spey]

Mr. Kennedy, You need to discuss this with the weight expert Peter.

The rod is part of the equation. If your rod is the 9140 that extra weight might be a problem. My Sage 6126 and 7141 are the sturdy Euro rods and a little extra weight doesn't seem cause a problem like with the 7136 or with my son's 9140.

A couple of factors that never get discussed are the river conditions. If the river is high, really fast and deep due to winter rains/flows, that impacts my casting. I never hear anyone talking about this factor.

The other factor is the size and weight of the fly. My son is very good with his 9140, however if he tries to go to a fly bigger than a size 4, his casts go from great looking to not so great looking.

Leaders's size, length and if furled or regular, impact my casting. In the late spring to early fall, the best leader with any of my lines is Rio's 15' steelhead leader unless the wind is really high.

In the winter higher river flows and with high wind conditions. I do better with furled leaders and a couple of feet of tippet. The fast sinking furled leaders with a couple of feet of tippet while connected to the floating tip or intermediate tip and a weighted fly often eliminate the need for a sinking tip. That makes life easier for this old man.

This probably has your head and eyes spinning even more.

Merry Christmas

 

[t_richerzhagen]

Peter

are you sure about the difference? RIO usually does a good job in making their products. It is hard to imagine that all of their upgrades of 7/8/9 would be heavier than the belly. Is it a mislabeled upgrade? You want the heaviest part of belly near the caster to geet good transfer of energy. THE SA XLT really exemplifies that concept.

 

[Mr. Kennedy]

RIO claims that the upgade alone is 320gr. for the 7/8/9. The 8/9/10 340gr. and 410gr. for the 9/10/11. :Eyecrazy:
How much did your upgrade weigh in at?

 

[Mr. Kennedy]

Is it supposed to be a power hinge or something? Next time I buy a new line... I'm having the shop weigh the darn thing right there!!!

 

[sva01]

But would it give me a taste...

Why not just buy a mid-belly line and be done with this sort of mix 'n' match business? I was quite pleased to have the upgrade as it gives me another shooting head, but would I use it on the WC for which it was intended?

Peter-
You have hit the nail on the head. The reason I started this thread was to get answers about an alternative to spending $150.00 for the Mid-Spey. I want to know if I will find the Mid-Spey suitable to the fishing that I do without dropping that kind of coin. As a second year spey caster I don't claim to have it all figured out but I do feel like I'm ready to "graduate" from the WC. Don't get me wrong, I love that line and I'm sure will continue to use it, but I'm interested in the advantages that I feel the MS has. The longer belly will allow me greater mending control and this time of year when the highs for the day reach 15 degrees, it will mean less stripping and therefore warmer hands. I realize it's probably not the ideal set-up but would it be worth a shot in order to see if I like it or is it really a useless concoction? As I stated before, I really want to move to the MS but want to make sure that it's what I want before I make the investment. That's why I'm wondering if the upgrade will possibly allow me a glimpse of the mid-belly world. Thanks for the replies and Merry Christmas to all!