[Back Eddy]

Too new to this and trying to get my head around way too much stuff.

Application- I beleive it is for tight areas to allow the proper formation of a D Loop

Other than that lost

I have a 9/10/11 and a 10/11/12- 5' and 10' What line configuration would be utilized , rods these would set up well on and typical fishing situations these would be better suited to be used.

As always any information is greatly appreciated

 

[shotgunner]

The concept was noticed by public while the development crew were figuring out and dialing length and grain formats for the first commercial Skagits. Offering them to the demanding public naturally followed.

For a brief period they were billed as addition to Windcutter / Midspey Multi Tip lines. You could come up with A LOT of different combinations with two removable sections from front of your line. It was possible to create a pretty workable Skagit from your existing Windcutter by leaving the front two tips off and adding a cheater for more length and weight. Or maybe remove some grains for use on a lighter rod by taking tip 2 out and inserting a cheater as tip 2, then loop tip 1 to the 'mid' cheater.

The most popular use was to lengthen a factory Skagit. They were all longer back then but so were majority of rods. People seemed to have a lot of trouble pulling their anchor. Short heads were a big transition of casting strokes.

 

[fish0n4evr]

Excactly!

They are extensions essentially. The idea was to maintain the head length to rod length ration 2.5:1 or 3:1 for skagit-heads when casting long rods - 15'er for example. In case of the WC-tips version, you could replace the cheater for the No.2 section and essentially create a MidSpey. There is a floater and an intermediate sinker - you loop the sink-tip to the forward end of the cheaters.

 

[Back Eddy]

Sorry Guys not real smart here

At a high level these posts have added to my knowledge and thanks for that

Based on my lines in the original post I have a 8wt 15' 7wt 13' and a 5wt 11'7"

I am assuming that the 15' would be the best fit

 

[shotgunner]

I wasn't sure if you had the actual lines, cheater sets, or both.

Every individual piece of line kit or cheater set had (has) a published weight and length. Back in the day many of us had crunched them around enough that they were memorized.. at least the ones you were trying to work with. You could configure a workable combination from all these pieces. A little crude, sure.. but plenty fishable.

Speaking with Bob M about ten years ago he told me that the Windcutter with tip two removed and tip one up front (looped on body) was pretty much the foundation for the modern "Switch" lines. Short rods were pretty fresh on the scene. My first was a Loop Blueline 7116. Sweet little rod and very capable. I had a 9/10/11 Windcutter already. The body alone weighs 320 grain @ 23'. Stuck a 5' cheater on it that bumped it up to 400 grain and 28'.. added some T-14 and went fishing. I still use just the 320 grain body as a short Skagit on a light trout spey, have not found better and it's integrated which is hard to come by.

You could also shorten or lengthen the standard 54' format by placing cheaters in the mid section. Removing tip two and inserting 10' cheater was a quick way to drop 5' off total. That doesn't sound like much but makes a very notable difference in casting.

Link provided by Bob Pauli at the end of this thread on RIO section lengths and weights. These may have changed minor amount through the years but still very close: http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=9755&highlight=section+weights

Note that RIO also offered a "WC Upgrade" @25' that replaced tip two and instilled additional 10' of length for 64' total.

 

[Rick J]

I don't really see much use for the cheaters - you indicate rods you have but not what fly lines you currently have - just what cheaters you have. If you have the short Skagit heads (in the 20' range) and wanted to cast on your 15' rod assuming you put on a 10' tip - this gives a ration of 2:1 which is getting down into a range that could be tough to cast without blowing your anchor unless you really let up on the gas. If you had a 15' tip I am not sure I would add a cheater to that setup but perhaps you could add a 5' length

For Skagit lines, I do not believe I would use a cheater on either of your other rods.

You could still use the cheaters as other have said if you wanted to extend one of the older windcutters to try and create a mid-belly line or add them to the mid-belly lines to create a long belly line

 

[Back Eddy]

Thanks Guys

Based on the info willing to sell or trade if someone is interested

 

[JDJones]

Back n the day

To which these guys are referring, I had 5 & 10 ft sections of both floating & intermediate cheaters. I also had chopped up 5 & 10 ft sections of T-10 & T14. Armed with all of this, I figured I could cover any situation. Problem was, being new to the game, I wasted a whole lot of time changing this & that section. Time that could have been better spent by sticking with one setup & figuring out how to mend the line to make it swing the fly at the proper depth. And how to cast all these different setups.

Now for yet another brief bit of history on all of this. When Windcutter lines were first brought out, the most popular rod of the day was the Sage 9140-4. Before long people were finding that when you added the length of a 14 ft rod + 55 ft head + 14 ft leader, you were fishing 80+ ft out when the fish were only half that distance away. This without even shooting any line! It didn't take too long for someone to figure out they could remove both the tip and the mid section from a 10/11/12 Windcutter line, attach a tip section from a 7/8/9 WC line and fish much closer in, while still being able to shoot line when required.

When you tried this on longer rods, however, you often found you were blowing your anchor. Rio, ever mindful of market trends, began offering "cheaters" of 5 & 10 ft lengths for those not wanting to cut & loop their own. Then to add even more confusion to the game, there were the 5 & 10 ft compensators. :lildevl:

 

[flytyer]

JD,

Jim Vincent designed the Windcutter Interchangeable with the two loops in the belly to allow folks to remove the so-called "Tip 2" and have in essence an early version of a "Skagit line". Jim originally did this with the Sage 9140-4 in mind because Jimmy Green designed that rod for use with a short shooting head (modern Skagit) line, which is why it is badly overloaded with the full 9/10/11 Windcutter or other short or mid-belly 9/10 spey lines for the simple reason they weigh too much. But if you take out the 15' Tip 2 of the old Interchangeable Tip Windcutter, you have a near perfect weight for the rod.

Jim designed this into to old Interchangeable Tip Windcutter on purpose. It wasn't something that people discovered. It was part of Jim's design. This is also why the old Windcutter isn't the nicest short-belly line to cast if you cast the full 55' belly (either the non-interchangeable tip version, or the interchangeable tip version with both tip 1 and tip 2 looped on). The taper wasn't optimized as a short-belly (55' belly) line, it was really optimized as a shooting head (i.e. early Skagit before the name Skagit Line came into existence) line.

Jim had the Accelerator for those who wanted to cast and fish a longer head (belly) weight forward spey line. And it incorporated a design feature Jim picked up from Mike Maxwell, the small necked-down area in the front taper that then had the line increase rapidly in diameter in front of that short little "necked down" area with the line's front taper than tapering smoothly from that point (which was at about 25' from the tip) to the top.

And the first Windcutter and Accelerator lines Jim marketed under the RIO name were made for him to his taper and weight specifications by Cortland Line Company. And this was also several years before Jim got Simon to move from Scottland to the states. How do I know this, I knew Jim back in the day when he fished the Skagit every spring.

 

[JDJones]

How do I know this, I knew Jim back in the day when he fished the Skagit every spring.

Flytyer, You do indeed go back a long way. Myself a newcomer, I appreciate the history lesson. Thank you.

 

[coastrider]

Flytyer, You do indeed go back a long way. Myself a newcomer, I appreciate the history lesson. Thank you.

I also enjoyed that bit of history, thanks guys