Spey Pages banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A little guidence would be most appreciated.
During my spey casting practice, I can`t seem to consistently get the last few feet of my line and leader to straighten out.
On shorter casts even, the last bit lands at right angle to the main line.
I notice if I`m casting with some wind behind me, the problem is not so obvious.
Could anyone tell me what I`m likely doing wrong.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Peter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,297 Posts
speypages

i always remember the tip=shock wave/dimple on a video on the speypages,i believe it's the longline casting of Tak,,,watch the tip,,duplicate that=the shock wave should follow,all the way to the end of the line,if not,the line is to heavy or light,also,try casting with ten ft. pulled back in,and again ten more ft pulled back in,,keep stripping,,if it suddenly flies `right,,maybe not enough `hard stop' for the line length out,,,,,,,,always a factor,,,,then the leader is suspect,but,you stated the line?,,,what line are you using? DT's can `fall apart' like that,better get to the vids! :biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Try a left drift

Try this tip that I picked up from Henrik Mortensen:
When you have made your forward stop (high) - make the rod drift to the left as you lower your rod towards the surface. The leader wil turn left too. Works most of the time for me.
Hopefully for you too,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Cascade,
When the fly/leader is landing at the anchor point is it landing crooked? If it is it will end up crooked when cast.

As Ian Gordon says Keep the lift slow, and don't stop!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,027 Posts
Same for 'river right' or river left?'

S. Arendrup said:
Try this tip that I picked up from Henrik Mortensen:
When you have made your forward stop (high) - make the rod drift to the left as you lower your rod towards the surface. The leader wil turn left too. Works most of the time for me.
Hopefully for you too,
Darned interesting comment above, but is the 'rod drift' to the left dependent upon whether your fishing river left or right?
fae
 

·
JD
Joined
·
3,609 Posts
lands @ right angle to main line

This is interesting. Because IF you can figure out the cause, and duplicate it at will, it could be very useful.
There are a number of things that could be the cause of your problem. The most obvious being not casting directly over your anchor. If, for example on a single Spey cast, you place the anchor too far upstream, and you are unable to line up the D loop with the anchor, the cast will look fine until the end when the fly falls. It (fly) will fall with more or less the same amount of upstream out of alignment that it had when you formed the D loop. Hope that makes sense. Anyway, try doing that on purpose and see what happens.
Another cause for this may be that you are not swinging the rod in a straight line when you make the final, forward stroke. But rather, rotating through the stroke, either at your shouders, hips, or both. This would result in a cast looking kind of like a corkscrew, rather than a loop where the top and bottom leg are parallel throughout the cast.
The third, and less likely, fault would be an unconsious sideways drift after you have made the stop. This is called a reach cast and is often done on purpose for varoius reasons. The amount of time between the stop and the reach determines how far back on the line the "bend" will be. However, it is very difficult to be quick enough to put the bend out at the end of the line, even with a single hand rod.
Work with these things to try and determine what you are doing wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Fredaevans -
You drift in the direction of the flow, and your leader should do the same - making the fly land a little downstream of your line.
A rather slow relaxed drift of your rod is all it takes.
As mentioned I picked the tip up at a underhandcastingsession with Henrik Mortensen.
He is very good at making things look relaxed, nice and easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the advise !

Many thanks for all the advise. Sometimes we get that close to the trees, we can`t see the wood.
Willie Gunn ...I think the anchor/grip is landing straight enough, I appreciate how important this is, so I tend to watch it carefully.
JD....I understand what you say, and I`m thinking that your second point may very well be the problem. Rotating through the stroke, is a probable cause. This problem doesn`t occur with every cast, but I think hip rotation (wiggling) is something I`m doing, especially when trying to add distance. Not casting directly over the anchor is something I`ll watch for too. Thanks for the help. I`ll come back here if I haven`t solved it soon, if that`s ok ?
Sar...thanks, I`ll try this.
Hammer....Thanks also, all sound advise ! The line I`m using is the SA XLT 10/11.

Peter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Leader preference?

Just as a matter of interest, how important is the taper on the leader to achieving a correct turn-over? Also leader lenght, is there an ideal lenght?
I`m using 60lb, down to 20lb, 3 x 5`lenghts. Is this ok?
Thanks again
Peter.
 

·
JD
Joined
·
3,609 Posts
Anchor point

The anchor point is sometimes hard to watch, especially if you arre throwing it too far upstream on a cast like the single Spey. Maybe a friend can watch for you. Maybe try just doing a Grant switch, without any change of direction, and see if everything lines up and straightens out. Dr. Way Yin, who I learned a lot from, says "control the anchor and you control the cast." The single Spey is one of the more difficult casts to learn because of this. There is very little room for error on that cast. Try a Perry Poke, a Snap-T (sometimes calles a Snap-C or a Circle cast) or a Double Spey. On these casts, placemeent of the anchor point and the actual cast are two separate moves so you have a little more time to fool with the anchor point.
The XLT is a good line, even to learn on. It forces you to learn proper technique. But what, pray tell, are you using to launch the 10/11?
And your leader sounds like it is OK, although maybe a little heavy in the butt section. I like mine at least as long as the rod, but I start with 40lb Maxima (Chameleon) on the bigger lines and #30lb on the lighter lines. Years ago I used 30lb hard Mason as a butt section on Bass Bug leaders. But that stuff is so stiff, it doesn't turn over well. A book could be written on leader design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
439 Posts
This is my take on your issue and knowing what type of line system you are using.
With out seeing you cast I would say that your stroke length is two short. I find that an XLT needs a nice long stroke to make things happen.
A couple of ways to lengthen out your stroke are; spread your feet further apart, bend at the waist when starting your lift,( go slow while setting this up) and this is the easiest one, shift your sholders back and turn your head so you can look at your rod tip. These are tips that I got from the masters of the long cast on this side of the pond, Way and Steve Choate.
Hope this helps.
Leroy..........................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,735 Posts
Most spey casts have the rod canted at an angle rather than dirctly overhead. This can lead to hooking the rod tip on the forward cast, just as with a single handed rod. When you come forward on the forward cast it still needs to be in a straight plane with the stop directing out toward your target. The rotation that JD talks about can just be a slight rotation of your hands so you are driving the tip to the side rather than in a striahght line path - essentially hooking the rod tip which will kick the leader around. Does it kick around in a dynamic fashion or does it just sorta puddle up? If the former I would say you are definitley hooking the rod tip a bit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Getting there slowly !

Went out on the water yesterday for a couple of hours, armed with all my new-found solutions.
I`m not sure my problem is just one thing, but perhaps a combination of little problems, (as highlighted) which I`m trying to resolve one at a time.
Very much appreciate all the advise, concentrates the mind.
As so many have advised, the anchor is paramount, and getting the consistency is the hard bit.
Will try the Grant switch as you suggest, today JD.
The "weapon" I`m using for the 10/11 XLT is a B&W 17`11" Norway Spey. I`ll also try your leader recommendation, thanks JD.
Speyrd....I will also get to work on what you suggested about the long stroke, makes sense really when you think about it. Thanks.
Rick J.... It just sorta puddles up ! Why is that?
Off again, with the ironing board !
Many thanks
Peter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Wow, that´s a big gun you´re swinging! I´ve always been curious about these seriously long rods. Is it really heavy, ie drains you at the end of a day, or is the rod balanced enough in order to admit a full day´s fishing? Is it necessary to alter your technique compared when casting more ´normal´ rods?
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Cascade -

If you dare, post a video clip - that would lead to some very definite comments.

In the meantime, it seems like you are having (a) loss of power and (b) path of acceleration that is not straight, with power snap technique also possibly contributing.

There are many ways to lose power as mentioned already. One is excessive anchor grip, another is over-rotation of the d-loop behind you, or a non-linear path of acceleration per JD, also too short of a stroke as Leroy and RickJ mentions, etc. You might also have too much overhang as mentioned... it could be any of the above, a video would cut to the chase.

Per the straight path of acceleration:

I really like Cathy Beck's analogy of taping a pencil to the rod tip and writing on a wall, straight and keep the pencil on the wall.

My own method when teaching two-handed overhead casting w/ the Atlantis for straight POA is to put the top hand knuckles against a wall (with no rod), then make the fwd casting motion. The knuckles should stay in contact with the wall throughout the entire casting stroke. Of course in spey casting the backcast (d-loop) tracks differently but the forward cast motion applies to this overhead casting training trick.

Make sure your hitting Simon's essential 3 - big belly, 180 degree rule, light anchor. Without all three you will have a loss of available power.

It would be great if you could post a small video clip, that would de-mystify the situation in a hurry.

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Will do !

Juro,
many thanks for the analysis, and I will do my best to have a video clip taken on Tuesday, and get it up here asap. I appreciate how difficult it is for others to help identify my problems, when I don`t know what`s causing them myself. The video/videos should call a halt to that. Thanks to all that have helped to date, no doubt I shall have to call on your expertise again.
Fredtrout..... Yeah it`s a biggie alright, and although I don`t find it heavy, not so sure I would want to spend a full day fishing with it, or that there are many places where it would be needed.
I usually practice for 1-2 hours a day, but in that time, probably casts as many times as you would do in a day`s fishing.
I use the same model, but in the 15` for fishing, as it`s a lot easier, and can cover the water almost as well.
The only difference I`ve found with these long belly lines, and a big rod, is that with so much line in play, the loop size, anchor position, and the timing are different, but most of the rest is the same. I`m no expert with it though, as I`ve only been using it a few weeks.
Will post back on Tuesday.
Peter.
 

·
Speyladdie
Joined
·
429 Posts
Juro.
Would you be so kind to share with the gang how to post video clips.
I just bought a Sony DSC F828.It has three settings for taking video.Which would you recommend for the site so it doesn't take up too much space.
Thanks.
Speyladdie. :smokin:
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
I can't tell you what your cam will produce but you could try on the three settings and see what the file sizes are, also what format it produces. Generally mpeg has the best compression and a file size of 1mb-3mb is the best for your viewers.

Keep in mind dial-up users are left in the dust with anything over 1mb.

As far as hosting, if you have a host somewhere you have to ftp it there and provide a link, if you would like it hosted on our server I would submit a request to Dana, Sean or I once you get the clip down to size.

Others like brooklynangler might be able to provide more detailed information for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Sorry for delay !

Juro,
apologies for the delay in getting a video clip up here.
My loyal friend, the one with the video camera, is on jury service since Monday, but should get organised over the w/end. Will do, asap.
Peter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Hi Cascade,

I hope the fault is a thing of the past by now.

Great rod. Thanks for letting us try it.

Working in front of oneself instead of starting the forward cast from well back at the side is one of the most common errors in Speycasting.

According to the great Peter Anderson, working in front of oneself means losing some all important lead into the power arc. Also a final short snatching type of delivery is then made due to effectively running out of room with no relaxed follow through possible to dampen rod oscillation after the power snap. The power stroke is too narrow. It is also not as powerful when made with the angler reaching than when it is made with the angler's elbows still bent.

Hope to see you soon.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top