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? Why don't Ballistic Vector lines get more love?

13K views 42 replies 22 participants last post by  GR8LAKES FLYER 
#1 ·
Just wondering. I've got a few Vectors and like them very well. Seems like Gaelforce and Nextcast are getting the majority of the attention right now (and deservedly so as they make very fine lines) while the Vectors seem to be a forgotten thing of the past. I've cast several Gaelforce and Nextcast lines (even own some Nextcast) but for my stroke the Vector taper typically works as well as any and better than most. Plus, there are a huge variety of sizes and two lengths, and when cut and looped they throw tips very nicely. So, if anybody can shed some light on this for my I would greatly appreciate it. All opinions welcome.

CT
 
#2 ·
I'm not sure why the vector lines aren't talked about much there great lines I'd rather use them over most of the other lines mentioned and there a far better price . I also like the Beulah aero lines cut back with tips both lines have a great taper and fish very well I'm a fan of both .
 
#3 ·
I like the Vector lines, I have one in 8/9 and it's great. (Even better once I lopped the head off).
Very, very advanced lines. Right up there.
 
#4 ·
I love vector lines. Fished or own most of them. My daily driver in summer is the 8/9 XL. I prefer them over the nextcast for fishing(mending/presentation and feel of delivery). I have not tried the newer nextcast though. Can't justify forking out the money for gaelforce when I'm happy with the Vectors. Running lines are great too. I tried the single hand line and was very impressed.
 
#5 ·
Hard to know why one thing gets more buzz than another.

Here is some speculation, emphasis on "speculation":

1. NextCast has been around longer, has a larger and more widespread "pro staff", is highly visible on the competition circuit. Thus, more buzz, more people to answer questions on the boards.

2. NextCast has a broader and deeper product line. Lines comes in heads (easier to try out, and to switch around) and the most popular ones can be had pre-looped for tips. That makes them potentially more versatile and appealing to a wider customer base. May or may translate into more lines, but almost certainly translates into more questions about lines.

3. While there is nothing wrong with the Vector, I have a few, the taper design is different, and my subjective impression is that the NextCast lines mostly have a more forgiving taper.

I have less experience with the Gaelforce lines, only have a couple, but would argue, even more speculatively, based partly on the heritage of the lines, the above three things are true for them as well, though to a somewhat lesser extent.

Neither #1 nor #2, it should be clear, have anything at all to do with the product itself.
 
#8 ·
good question

Two years ago, someone on this board recommended a 500 gn Ballistic Vector for my Winston 7133. In five casts I understood why. Have since gotten Vectors for two other rods. The scandis and every other line I own have been collecting dust ever since.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I like how Vector lines cast nice and easy using long leaders and unweighted flies. Don't know about Galeforce lines. Those look very good in numbers and on paper. But I think the beauty in NC lines is in the weight - they are heavier in weight class than others. NC 55 7/8 is approx. 80 grains heavier than a comparable Vector 7/8. The weight difference makes it easier to cast on any given rod when it is matched by rod weight designation - more feel for the load - and so you slow down more. Forgiving ? Sure. It's the same olden theory of up-lining by one weight when learning to spey cast then backing off as you become comfortable with a line. Many casters prefer NC line one weight under for the same reason.

The weight also makes casting tips easier. A FF 7/8, right out of the box without alteration, will make short work out of the longest polyleaders in the market while the same WA can man-handle fairly aggressive tips. The Vector would have to step up to an 8/9 to compare . That's just how I see most lines available these days compared to NC lines.
 
#11 ·
Forgiving ? Sure. It's the same olden theory of up-lining by one weight when learning to spey cast then backing off as you become comfortable with a line.
It's more complicated than that, the tapers are different. If you wanted to do a comparison that is apples-to-apples on the total weight, you would compare, say, a NextCast 55 7/8 to a Beulah Aero 8/9 to a Vector 8/9. All of these are in the 570-580 gr range and I personally would use them on the same rod. It's not the total line weight, it's where in the line the weight is placed, and all three of these lines have different design concepts and different performance profiles as a result.

Get thee to a micrometer!
 
#10 ·
I fish the vector xl 7/8 on my old 8150. Fantastic line!!! I have casted/fished the fall favorite 55 & 70 on this rod and still liked the XL the most. I also fish the standard vector 7/8 on my 8126-3. One thing I notice is more nextcast lines for sale than Ballistic :hihi:
 
#14 ·
Seems like marketing differences to me. It appears as though Vector is a one man (and woman) show for marketing while Nextcast and Gaelforce have many expert casters demonstrating their lines at the various claves/venues. Just my impression from the little hanging around the fishing business folks I do. Gaelforce has done a good job of getting out their message of dominance at the casting competitions (I know, just a part of the overall spey world but still a visible one). Not sure how many people know that a Vector line won the senior division at SOR this year, and there was no (at least not visible) Vector presence at the Sandy Clave this year. So, conclusion Watson...?
 
#16 ·
Sounds like Snake River Outfitters (Lee Davidson) and Poppy are the only two outlets for Vectors, and Express scandi's for that matter. In this age of electronic communication and purchasing, getting a line is no big deal, BUT, having Poppy in the mix makes demo lines available. In fact, I should have two demo Vectors showing up any minute now. All hail Poppy and his demo program. Has saved me a pile of $ trying to find the right lines.

Everyone lamenting the demise of the green Deltas and Delta longs should give Vectors and Vector XL's a try. You might be VERY pleasantly suprised. Now it's time to head to the river to give a Vector XL 9/10 a spin on the big MKS.
 
#18 ·
Midd,

Yeah, he's pushing Gaelforce right now but Lee Davidson is usually at the Claves. In fact, Poppy told me that he was in Lee's spot this year. I know that some of the rod makers (e.g. Gary Anderson) had some spooled up for demoing rods. With that said I am signing off to got test a 9/10 XL.
 
#20 ·
I like the Vectors I have, and especially the XLs. I don't think I ever go to the river for a casting session without at least one Vector in my bag. I recently picked up a Vector Magnum at Spey-O-Rama. It's heavy for my rod(I plan on trimming some grains out), but it's another very good head.

Looking forward to the Gaelforce 70 heads.

briansII
 
#21 ·
I recently picked up a Vector Magnum at Spey-O-Rama. It's heavy for my rod(I plan on trimming some grains out), but it's another very good head.
What rod you are trying to trim to?

Now, take this with a large grain of salt, as I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt the need to tweak a line for weight, but, one of those times was with a Vector Magnum, and it did not end well. Relatively speaking, the Vectors have very long front tapers and short belly sections. It is almost a triangle taper. You cannot take too much from the back before it starts to seriously affect the performance of the line. And yes I learned this the hard way. :mad:

Not saying not to do it, just be aware of the peculiarities of this line, and take it slow (admittedly that is always a good idea).

This also goes back to my previous comment about the NextCast lines being more 'forgiving'. While, as pointed out by skagitmeister, they are still back-weighted, so give the feeling of effective rod loading, there seems to be more driving power from the longer belly and whatever is going on in the transition to the front taper. At least my subjective experience is, while the Vectors lay out all delicate-like, a cast that would be marginal or just fold up with a Vector will still turn over with a NextCast. Greater driving power. Great with tips. Not being a line designer maybe my analysis of the relation to the taper differences is off but it seems consistent.
 
#22 ·
Trout,

This is interesting. I have put the calipers to many lines, including Vectors and my FF55 6/7, and it seems to me that the tapers are not too dissimilar. Both are very different from, say, a Delta. To my eye the most significant difference is that the Vector has a modest back taper while the Nextcast has none. The driver portion of the Nextcast is also VERY short and thick. The apex and "funnel" section on my FF55 6/7 is only 7' long followed by a long, continuous taper to the tip. My Vector 8/9 has an 8' apex with a continuous taper to the tip, but it also has an 8' back taper. Both look much like a long scandi head. I wonder how similarly they would cast if you just cut the back taper off the Vector? Just for reference the Gaelforce Eqalizer 63 I measured and my GPS 8/9 are different animals from the others.

Line design is a fascinating topic
 
#25 ·
Cowboy,

A couple further reactions.

1. I agree at a high level the tapers are not too dissimilar, at least with something like a Delta as a comparison point. Actually a bit surprised you set the Gaelforce apart.

2. About the belly lengths....I'm pretty confident in the measurement of my lines. But I should have pointed out I mostly have somewhat older NextCast lines, from when they still had back tapers. May not be the same as your lines. Or the differences are small enough that multiple interpretations are possible, bringing us back to #1.
 
#28 ·
Troutless,

My assertions on the Nextcast lines are based on the measurement of the single line I own, FF55 6/7. So take my statements with a grain of salt. I should be measuring more in the future.

I set Gaelforce aside because it (the single line I measured - Equalizer 63 9/10) has a very complex taper. Think a stepped front taper (like a powerspey) up to a thick, short apex, followed by a quick drop to the back taper of 13' that seems of have a step or two in it. Still trying to wrap my head around what all those things are contributing to the feel and performance of the line. One thing I can say after having cast several Gaelforce lines on several different rods, they cast very light. For example, my FF55 6/7 (520 gr) feels like a full load on my T&T 1307-3, but it took a 584 gr Equalizer 54 9/10 to load the same rod. Not sure I'm ready to draw too many conclusions on Gaelforces yet.

In the meantime I'm feeling lot's of love from Vectors. Tried my 8/9 on my ACR 1209 Nova (not yet in Gary's website) a couple of days ago and it just ripped, even with 15' tips. Like a long scandi head.

CT
 
#33 · (Edited)
Vector XL 60 650 grains

Steve Godshall was responsible for the design of the Vector I believe. Steve has made some of the nicest casting heads for two rods that he built for me. Both rods are exceptional with his heads.

On his suggestion I have ordered a Vecor XL 60 650 grain head and it will be arriving soon to use on my CND 14'2" BV GT. So far I have used all of the Nextcast heads from Coastal to WA70 and a Carron Jetstream on this rod. I'm looking forward to checking out the Vector. I'll report back once I've had some time with it.

Many thanks to Steve for opening my eyes to the possibilities... Getting the most from my setups has been an obsession for some time and his suggestions have always been a revelation. He has even given me suggestions on how to cut a couple of NC lines to optimize them for two of my rods.
 
#39 ·
Steelhemy,

I've cut Vectors. Steve Godshall told me to cut at 0.060" rather than a specific length. That said, 0.060 worked out almost exactly to 15' on my Vector 8/9. Works great, very effective tip line. Can use tips up to 15' 7wt (95gr) tips. I've also used 12' to 14' of Z7 with good results, gets really deep. Never tried it with a Gaelforce. Hope that helps.

Tom
 
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