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Discussion Starter #1
We are having a discussion on the board now about what makes a good first Spey Rod.

Again there are two distinct and separate sides/groups.

Those of us who prefer the seven weights and those who prefer the 9 weights are fairly well divided into two groups again.

It seems to me that these arguments/discussions would be better answered if Sage, T$T or someone actually built a real 8 weight European Action Spey rod between 14 and 15 feet long.

If they build an 8 weight, it is a short rod, under 13 feet, and not long enough (14 to 15') to do the classic Double Spey casts for most of us. Or it is some bastardized multi weight rod like 78910 or 8910 or whatever which never seems to be balanced with any line for most of us.

A cynic, whom I know, believes that a true 14 to 15' European 8 weight would really cut into the sales of the 7 and 9 weight 14 to 15' rods. So they make the shorter 8 weight rods if at all to sell more 7's and 9's that are at least 14 feet long.

This past year, when I decided to move up from my 7136 to a sturdier European Action, he said that if Sage made a true 8 weight Euro that was 14'1" to 15'1", that would be the rod to go to. Since they didn't he agreed that the 7141 would be the best steelhead rod in N. California and most of Oregon. However, there might be a few times that I could be over whelmed with a 7 weight instead of an real 8 weight.

Months later after reading all of the battles re a favorite one rod, I believe that he was right on target that Sage, T$T and others have decided not to make a true 8 weight Euro that is 14 to 15' long. That was/is a marketing decision, not a customer need driven decision.

What are your feelings?
 

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Sage did make one. The 8150 and although some thought it more of a nine weight, it was a sweet rod.
 

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Bruce & Walker do a 7-9 weight 15ft Powerlite, I think it fishes best with a 8 weight.

Powerlite Speycaster 15' # 7 - 9
a specialist rod for salmon/sea grilse. A rod you can fish extremely light for summer conditions, low water and lakes but will still cast and reach fish 30-35 yards away. Robert, a ghillie on the Tulchan was more than surprised at casting a single Spey 31 yards within 20 minutes of using this rod for the first time.
Specification

27 inch all cork handle, salt water resistant black anodised screw winch fitting, woven carbon insert, end cap and rubber button, hard chrome snake rings, two lined butt rings. Deep mahogony matt rod, deep burgundy whippings with gold tipping.
Malcolm
 

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Hooked on Salmon
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From what I have experienced the SAGE 14'1" #7 indeed is a true 8 weight. (this also was mentioned by several users on this board a few months ago).

I am bringing one down to Patagonia within short and then will know for sure. I have a reallly good feeling for that rod.
Per
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Per Stadigh

The Sage 7141 is a great rod and I really like it.

It was semi promoted as an 8 weight rod, however Rio for 2003 has the same recommendations for their WC and MS Spey lines with the 7141 as the Sage 7136.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
NrthFrk16

You asked this question:

What really is an 8 weight Spey rod??

Answer: It is the rod weight that Ain't made by Sage, T$T, Scott and other major rod makers that is at least 14 feet long.

So, the 8 weight 14'+ Spey Rod is the Ain't Weight Spey 14'+ rod. Because it Ain't made!

Which goes back to my original question, Why isn't an 8 weight 14'+ Spey rod being made by the major manufacturers?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Bob Pauli

Bob, knowing you, you would not own any Spey Rod that wasn't a good rod.

However, Fly Logic's Dec Hogan Series 8 weight 13 foot spey rod.
falls in my parameters of a rod that is not at least 14 feet long.

Here is what I posted in my question re the realities of the 8 weight rods on the market now.


"It seems to me that these arguments/discussions would be better answered if Sage, T$T or someone actually built a real 8 weight European Action Spey rod between 14 and 15 feet long."

"If they build an 8 weight, it is a short rod, under 13 feet, and not long enough (14 to 15') to do the classic Double Spey casts for most of us. Or it is some bastardized multi weight rod like 78910 or 8910 or whatever which never seems to be balanced with any line for most of us."
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Willie Gunn

This Bruce and Walker sounds like a good rod. It falls into that parameter I posted that the manufacturer doesn't specify it as an 8 weight but as a rod of multiple weights from 7 to 9 weight.

How cold is it in your part of Scotland now?

Happy New Year!
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Granpa Spey,

G.Loomis makes an 8 weight 14 footer in the GL3 series. Yes, I know that it is listed as an 8/9 by G. Loomis; however, it really cast better with the 7/8 MidSpey than the heavier 8/9 MidSpey. And there is the Scott ARC 1509 (a 15 footer) , which I find casts a lot better with an 8 weight than a 9 weight line.

I agree with Sinktip about the Sage 8150-4, it is a very sweet casting 8 weight. Far superior, in my opinion, than the Sage 9150-4 that replaced it. The Sage 8150-4 is the only one of the traditional speys from Sage that I like. I wish it was still in production. If you keep your eyes opened, you might find one.

My wife really wants to get the age 7141 and I find it is a very nice 14 foot 7 weight. Yes, it will cast an 8 weight line; but it feels overlined to me with the 7/8 MidSpey.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
flytyer re real 8 weights

Thanks for the feedback.

Re the 7141, I hope that the new MidSpey 7/8 doesn't over weight my 7141 since I have one on order with the tips.

With my 7141, sometimes with my current MS 6/7, I don't feel that it loads the rod enough on some of my miserable double speys. Regardless, it pops out 60 to 70' of line and a 12 to 15 foot leader rather effortlessly.

With the WC 678 upgrade replacing tip two on my WC 678 with the floating and intermediate tips, it doen't seem to overload my 7141. Without the upgrade and with sinking tips, I seem to be able to get the tips up for a roll cast and then a spey cast fairly well. I'm still on the long end of the learning curve there.
 

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Why the fixation on 14 or 15 foot lengths? When we first started, about 12 years ago, we wanted the longer rods. Have owned rods from 11'6" to 20 feet. Now don't want anything longer than 13 feet and fish the Deschutes with a 12' 6" 6wt.
May be the rod manufactors will figure a true 8 wt. when they can come up with some line weight standards that they all can agree on.

Good luck,
Leroy................
 

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Sperd,

What fixation with 14 ft or longer rods? I don't like to use 2-handers under 13 feet simply because they do not have the line mending or tip pulling power of the rods 13 ft or longer. I also prefer to use 15 ft or longer rods for two reasons: 1) I like to use long belly lines, especially the GrandSpey now that it is available, that rods shorter than 15 ft cause you to work your butt off with; and 2) the longer 2-handers provide line control at 90+ feet that the shorter rods cannot equal.

If I wanted to use a shorter rod, I'd use a 10 ft or 11 ft single hander. I'm sure that many of the folks on this board feel the same about the longer 2-handers.

It still comes down to what you like and what you desire to cast and fish with. To one person 13 ft is very long, to another, it is barely of a proper length. To one a rod of 15 to 16 ft is perfect, to another, 15 ft is too much. Some of this is based on height of the angler and some of it is based on what the angler perceives as being proper.

Who is right? Both views are right.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Flytyer's words of wisdom re length of Spey Rods

FT Posted:

"What fixation with 14 ft or longer rods? I don't like to use 2-handers under 13 feet simply because they do not have the line mending or tip pulling power of the rods 13 ft or longer. I also prefer to use 15 ft or longer rods for two reasons: 1) I like to use long belly lines, especially the GrandSpey now that it is available, that rods shorter than 15 ft cause you to work your butt off with; and 2) the longer 2-handers provide line control at 90+ feet that the shorter rods cannot equal. "

This is exactly why I posted my question, about why the major manufacturers don't make a real eight weight that is 14' to 15' long.

"If I wanted to use a shorter rod, I'd use a 10 ft or 11 ft single hander. I'm sure that many of the folks on this board feel the same about the longer 2-handers. "

There are smaller streams in N. California and S. Oregon where a true spey rod is not needed and could cause problems with other fishers. This is why I have bought 2 of Bob Meiser's 10' 6" two handed switch rods. Also, if you have wind roaring back up the river canyon at 30 mph or higher, the spey rods for most of us are not the rods to use. Again Meiser's two handed switch rods enable me to get the line out to most fish areas in these winds.


"It still comes down to what you like and what you desire to cast and fish with. To one person 13 ft is very long, to another, it is barely of a proper length. To one a rod of 15 to 16 ft is perfect, to another, 15 ft is too much. Some of this is based on height of the angler and some of it is based on what the angler perceives as being proper. "

Again this comes back to my question why don't the major manufactures make a true 8 weight Spey Euro action at least 14 feet long for those of us who prefer a longer rod.

"Who is right? Both views are right."
 

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Grampa, I know it doesn't qualify because it's 3" short and isn't a true "euro" but the Burkheimer 13' 9" 8wt has become my favorite rod.
Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #17
wrke's reply

wrke posted: "Grampa, I know it doesn't qualify because it's 3" short and isn't a true "euro" but the Burkheimer 13' 9" 8wt has become my favorite rod. Bill"

What is important is that you like that rod and it has become your favorite rod. That is what is coming out on this thread of mine and Per Stadigh's thread on underhand casting.

What is truly important is not any casting style, rod length/type, line and whatever. It is what works best for your and each of us in our personal fishing.
 

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This post is so typical of 'spey' discussions as we each have our own idea of what an 'true' 8 weight is, what 'euro' action represents, what constitutes a 'spey' cast, even what line is an 8 weight.
Grandpa I'd be interested to know what you think of a Winston DBF 7/8 in your search for a 15' #8 rod.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Tackle Man

Good points, re "Winston DBF 7/8 in your search for a 15' #8 rod!"

I would like to try one to see how it works with buying it.

Do you own one and how do you feel about it?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tackle Man reDerek Brown Favorites

Wow, those rods of DB's are really on the heavy side. If you balance them out with a similiar weight reel and plus some heavy spey lines equals swinging around a lot of weight with each cast.

That may be more weight that a cuddly old 64 year old grampa with bad shoulders, elbows and an upper right arm can swing and do a good job on the river.:eyecrazy:
 
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