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Discussion Starter #1
Ya-Ya that sounds like a silly question for someone that's been at this for 'this long.' But rod rating/skagit chucking has always left me a 'I have no clue' position. Mom would NOT be pleased .... :eek: For context the two rivers I fish are the upper end of the Rogue and the Chetco in SW corner of Oregon. With normal flows neither really is what you'd call 'big water.'

Anyway, you can tie these to any size you want but for the 'Lead Eye Big Boys' for winter fishing, what rod weight do you start with? Line/head choice can be all over the map so I assume 'grain weight' is the driving number?

Fred
 

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Hi Fred,

I can chuck a pretty good size load with the 600 grain Scandi line that Steve fixed me up with for my Winston. It is a 45' head bonded to that cool running line he uses. For real payloads I use an old Hardy rod that is lined with an 825 grain Trevor Morgan Javlin line with a 60' belly. The 825 will heave one of those giant bunny and feather Sculpins I make out to about 80 - 90 feet. The flies have the Sculpin Helmet weights on them too meaning they are big fat and heavy :)

For medium range stuff I can chuck those same Sculpins or any Intruder I have with a Beulah Elixir 475 grain line. That setup is limited to 60 foot or so but it does it without much effort.

For the length of casts you may need there on the Rogue I'm thinking a pretty heavy head with a good shooting line behind.

By the way, it was nice meeting you :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Whooa Ard, you really are older than dirt.

And here I thought it was just me: "..... 825 grain Trevor Morgan Javlin line ..."

I wonder if one in twenty here could acknowledge the reference.:eek:

fae
 

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Fred, I for one think it's a great question. One that I wish more people would ask.

For throwing large flies and heavy sink tips in heavy flows for steelhead a rod that will carry a 600 grain skagit
That is a rod in the heavy 8 or solid 9 at range.
I personally think it's a bad idea to attempt to make lighter rods do this kind of work even if the rod is capable of handling the fish
 

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Fred - Large intruders doesn't necessarily mean heavy intruders, does it? (If that's what you intend, my apology, and I'd agree with Rob and Ard) Large profiles, tied on tubes or otherwise, while being fairly light, can be sent to the depths with heavy tips and short mono leaders. I seem to do well with large 'profile' intruders on R. Meiser's 7/8 with a 540 grain skagit.

Ard - did Boss get his frisbee back? I'd hate to think of that big hound making his way back here to look for it!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Robbie is going where I thought the answer may be.

Fred, I for one think it's a great question. One that I wish more people would ask.

For throwing large flies and heavy sink tips in heavy flows for steelhead a rod that will carry a 600 grain skagit
That is a rod in the heavy 8 or solid 9 at range.
I personally think it's a bad idea to attempt to make lighter rods do this kind of work even if the rod is capable of handling the fish
Sigh ... time to hit/explore the Burkie web site .. Unless Rob has a suggestion? Why do I think this is time to refund/pump up the 'discretionary purchase' bank account? Reminds me of the old 'saw' about 'He who has the most toys ....'
:rolleyes:
 

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Broken record

Honestly, I don't get paid to repeatedly sing the praises of Meiser's MKS rods but his 13'6" 8/9 wt. rod is made for this task. It handles heavily weighted intruders at the end of 12 feet of T14 and a 600 gr. Compact Skagit head with ease and grace.d
 

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Ya-Ya that sounds like a silly question for someone that's been at this for 'this long.' But rod rating/skagit chucking has always left me a 'I have no clue' position. Mom would NOT be pleased .... :eek: For context the two rivers I fish are the upper end of the Rogue and the Chetco in SW corner of Oregon. With normal flows neither really is what you'd call 'big water.'

Anyway, you can tie these to any size you want but for the 'Lead Eye Big Boys' for winter fishing, what rod weight do you start with? Line/head choice can be all over the map so I assume 'grain weight' is the driving number?

Fred
Fred - I've found that an Airflo Skagit comp 450 for a 6/7 (MKS) will man-handle the biggest and baddest Intruders I'd care to tie. I've got a 540 for a 7/8 MKS for bigger fish and/or for the most extreme T-materials. But in my experience - grains do not matter nearly as much as taper in the line with regards to carrying capability.
 

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And here I thought it was just me: "..... 825 grain Trevor Morgan Javlin line ..."

I wonder if one in twenty here could acknowledge the reference.:eek:

fae
I fished a week in actic Norway with a party of rods put together by Trevor Morgan in 2003 [I think]; I tried his Javelin lines then & liked them, but never bought one as I had way too many lines already.

So Ard's post has just brought back some memories.

Regards, Tyke.
 

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I agree that you don't have to go crazy heavy, my Skagit rod has been a Scott 1257 throwing 510 grains and I can throw anything that I want to fish, bunny crap or intruders. Based on the fish I've personally experienced on the rogue I would look more in the 7 wt range Fred, the burkie 7134? Not positive but I think that's a Skagit stick.
 

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Ya-Ya that sounds like a silly question for someone that's been at this for 'this long.' But rod rating/skagit chucking has always left me a 'I have no clue' position. Mom would NOT be pleased .... :eek: For context the two rivers I fish are the upper end of the Rogue and the Chetco in SW corner of Oregon. With normal flows neither really is what you'd call 'big water.'

Anyway, you can tie these to any size you want but for the 'Lead Eye Big Boys' for winter fishing, what rod weight do you start with? Line/head choice can be all over the map so I assume 'grain weight' is the driving number?

Fred
Fred, I honestly think it depends on how far you think you need to throw them...or how hard you want to work...and how efficient your technique. I have never found throwing those things to be much fun. Maybe old timers such as ourselves need an 8/9 with a 600 grain line to get it done. 500ish works good if you are happy with a reasonable fishing cast of not too amazingly far.
 

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IMO
The rod is the end point in this equation... not the start

My answer - a 10'6 4/5 switch will fish the "big stuff"... with the right line system

35mm double waddington
big lead eyes
4' #10
6' T11
14' 300g head
4/5 switch

 

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I'm tossing 45mm wadington with dumbells on a 520 compact skagit and 10ft T11 on my ACR Nova 13'1" 7wt. It launches effortlessly. I think a 7 or an 8 are great. I personally don't like to fish my 8 as much. The 7 feels just right, even in winter. the 8 is nice for my buddies who don't fish as much.
 

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Hi Fred, Don't you own the Burkheimer 8139-3?. If you do you have the rod that will throw anything you want, Just find the right line that suits you and away you go, Brian
 

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it is the grains per foot that is important so a 20 foot Skagit in the upper 500 grain range will really turn over about anything you will want and a line in the 600 grain range should launch anything.

As ramcatt suggests match the line to the bug - if you cut back a line to a very short head you can likely fish it on a 5 or a 6 switch that will launch most heavy stuff

For my winter fishing my two rods are the SCOTT ARC 1287 rigged with a 575 Skagit. For smaller rivers I have the TFO 1107 Deer Creek. I cut back a 625 Skagit line to around 17 feet or so and it comes in at around 500 grains and will launch a big chicken!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I do indeed Sir, I do indeed. The rod that prompted my question.

Hi Fred, Don't you own the Burkheimer 8139-3?. If you do you have the rod that will throw anything you want, Just find the right line that suits you and away you go, Brian
Only time this rod 'sees water' is for winter fishing, chucking heads and larger flies. Typical water flows on the upper Rogue really aren't that bad year round. Odd to see flows (out of Wm. Jess Dam) of much over 3500 cfs save for in the Spring dealing with snow melt and the Spring King Salmon run.

Only one time (save for a real full on flood) did it get pushed to the max. Heavy snow pack and then came torrential rain on to that. Hell to pay to get rid of all that water as the lake behind the dam was already full. Corp of Eng's cranked open the gate and flow was at eighty five HUNDRED CFS.

That was damned impressive to see! :eek:

"Fred, I honestly think it depends on how far you think you need to throw them...or how hard you want to work...and how efficient your technique." From Medford up to the dam a long toss is pretty much a waste of time on most runs as our fish tend to be bank huggers. Below Grants Pass the river (year round) really spreads out until you get to the 'Wild and Scenic' section. Below that, the river really spreads out again.

Above Medford a long cast is a rarity as most of the fish are going to be within 30 - 40 feet of the bank your standing on (why I love switch rods!), casts much beyond that usually will get you 'nothing' until the fly moves back into that range. Now the Deschutes, love that river!! Fish hold 'bank to bank' due to the nature of much of the river bottom. CHUCK AWAY! 8>)
 

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Rick J;1048322[U said:
]it is the grains per foot that is important so a 20 foot Skagit in the upper 500 grain range will really turn over about anything you will want and a line in the 600 grain range should launch anything[/U].

As ramcatt suggests match the line to the bug - if you cut back a line to a very short head you can likely fish it on a 5 or a 6 switch that will launch most heavy stuff

For my winter fishing my two rods are the SCOTT ARC 1287 rigged with a 575 Skagit. For smaller rivers I have the TFO 1107 Deer Creek. I cut back a 625 Skagit line to around 17 feet or so and it comes in at around 500 grains and will launch a big chicken!!!
You are right of course, and so am I that 450 will cast anything one would ever need to cast at steelhead :)

Distances? I don't find too many spots in the NW where I'd cast a skagit head beyond 80 feet, and of that I'm often drawing some mended slack after each cast. That just me though - knowing it's not the norm out there.
 

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FishOn - I missed your comment about taper vs grains per foot in your first post and totally agree that taper is important. That is why I really like the short skagit lines out there for winter fishing - first they don't have a lot of taper so that grain weight is pretty evenly distributed and as you say for most winter situations you are not worried too much about casting far - so they are ideal for winter work though will say I generally use them for all my fishing now as it takes so little effort to cast them - so in the fall I just loop on a floating tip and typically step down a line size or two
 

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I really like the way you answer questions rammcat. A picture really is worth a thousand words. What a beautiful steely and rod and fly!


The rod is the end point in this equation... not the start

My answer - a 10'6 4/5 switch will fish the "big stuff"... with the right line system

35mm double waddington
big lead eyes
4' #10
6' T11
14' 300g head
4/5 switch

[/QUOTE]
 
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