[watersprite]

Feel free to jump in and correct any errant understanding which I may express here...

I tried out a cast today that was demonstrated at the Sandy River Spey Clave and I do not know what to call it. It was the one EVERYONE was doing that weekend (myself being the sole exception).

The river was flowing from my right to my left (river right?). At the end of the drift (at my left) I would do the spiral roll thing and change direction to cast at 90 degrees to the flow. Is this a single name cast or a combination of two casts? Not only does it look cool but it works cool as well.

ws

 

[fredaevans]

WS, sounds like your describing a

"Snake Roll." Rod tip low to the water, raise it straight up and form a number '9' (the important part is the 'o' in the 9 has to be oval shaped!), let the leader touch down for the anchor and let her rip with the forward cast.

Well, got blown off line before I finished this. Check Dana's "The Spey Pages" to the left. He's got a very good description on how this cast works. Same one?
fe

 

[fisshman26]

The cast that you are describing is the flip single or spiral single, it is the cast that Steve Choate has come up with and is highly effective and quite simple to do.

 

[watersprite]

Well I did check Dana's videos and they were sorta like it (Dec's and Kush's were both reverse snake rolls). It seems more similar to Kush's but with a single spey to finish (?).

I also checked out my RIO International Spey Casting video and find it very similar to Simon's. So I would guess it's a snake roll.

Whatever, it sure is cool and seemingly effortless when done right. And now it's about 6:25 PM and starting to cool off and I'm going to walk down to the river and give the two handers a try (a Sage 9140-4 green blank and a 12.5 tip flex Orvis 14' 9 wt.) with the Windcutter. For safety's sake I cut the bend of an old and ratty GBSkunk to tie on... If I can get this down and then start working on getting a fly to wake like in the above mentioned video then my summer will be complete. Well, a fish would help, too.:chuckle:

ws

 

[Dana]

Which hand is uppermost on the rod during your cast, watersprite? Also, prior to the forward delivery cast, does the fly line land upstream or downstream of you once you do the spiral motion?

 

[watersprite]

Dana,

Now that you ask I realize that although I was using a single hander I was in fact using two hands in the cast - the rod has a three inch butt making this a short double hander :chuckle: . To answer your question, my right hand was uppermost and the fly was landing upstream following the spiral maneuver.

ws

P.S. I don't know if it means anything to anyone but, assuming the cast in question is a snake roll, I found the Sage was the better performer. Likewise with the reverse snap-t. The stiffer Orvis was better at the double spey and suffered badly in my hands at the reverse snap-t. I am right handed and the river was flowing strongly left to right with a slight breeze from the right-rear. I was only able to cast the first 55 ft. of the line (stopping at the running line) with any sort of ease, anything more went to crap in a hurry. I left the sinktips in the wallet.

Nothing great but still a far cry from last Fall's disasterous beginning when nothing worked out. Although a humble restart it is still a positive performance and I am again excited by things spey.

 

[Dana]

since the right hand is uppermost, since you're on river left (flow right to left), and since the fly lands upstream of you after the spiral motion, this sounds like the cast fisshman was talking about. I've seen this cast performed by several different people at different times, and it seems to be a variation of the single spey combined with the Snake Roll that has been developed by many different anglers in many places. I first saw Dr. Mark Miller make this cast at a casting school and later on the Dean several years ago (we called it the "3M cast"--Mark Miller Maneuver), then Steve Choate on the Fraser a couple of years back, and most recently Henrik Mortensen used this move with the Underhand cast when we met last fall.

A good tip when making any of the Snake Roll-type casts--especially with shorter belly lines--is to really hesitate before you come forward. With long belly lines you can start the forward cast as soon as the leader touches down (and with really long lines and long casts it is a good idea to start your forward cast even before the fly touches down) but with the shooting heads waiting an extra heartbeat or three after the leader hits the water allows the D loop to really form up nicely and actually begin to load the rod for you before you start your delivery cast. Also, it is critical that you stay in contact with the line thoughout the spiral motions, that you actually feel the weight of the line off the rod tip as you are moving the rod around. For most casters this usually means sloooooowing down the spiral motions.

 

[watersprite]

Okay, spiral single it is (seems right since both these maneuvers are parts of the whole). I know that Steve and others at the clave burned this one into my brain not unlike picking up wing shooting of my younger days, lift, swing, squeeze.

Last Fall when I first tried the spey rod I did everything wrong that a beginner could do. I watched one short video clip, setup my rod with my heaviest sinktip and attached my heaviest and bushiest marabou fly. I then went and cast over fast water slightly upstream of a creek's confluence with the Skagit (with its increased turbidity). And I nearly broke my back trying to pull this line off the bottom while attempting the reverse snap-t (too ignorant to use a series of roll cast to bring the line to the surface). At the clave, this spiral single was seen by me as the answer to this problem. The spiral (whether a single spiral or a series) easily brought the line up throught the water column without the need to constantly roll cast - far more fluid. Further, I find the cast easy enough to perform (if 55 ft. is any measure of performance ) either right or left handed.

Thanks, Dana, Bruce, Fred...

Now to figure out this river right, river left stuff...

ws

 

[Dana]

left and right

traditionally, when facing downstream, river left is on your left, right on your right. Back in the old days the single spey was the cast for river left, the double for river right.

 

[watersprite]

:whoa:

Dana,

I don't want to work this one to death but... Something just doesn't jive here for ME. If I read this last post correctly it runs contrary to the first sentence on your previous post re: river left. Further, from my little experience these casts are better performed opposite of what you state in the last post. Least I confuse myself further how about we take a step back and work on a visualization.

Let's take your video "Bad Spey" and look at it closely. I see a single spey and river right. Correct?

ws

 

[doublespey]

What???

WS - I agree, this stuff is a mindbender!

I think that, when we're talking "River Left" we're speaking of the left-hand bank when facing downstream.

If you then assume that the caster is right-handed, then the proper cast for River Left would be the Single Spey (or spiral single, or Snap T, or Reverse Snake Roll). Reverse for our left-handed friends.

Now you're ready for someone to try to explain to you which side of the eye to tie the Riffle Hitch. That one still has me stumped!:eyecrazy:

Speycasting - getting closer to Rocket Science every day!

DS

 

[watersprite]

Well THAT really simplifies things. I don't know about your home waters but when facing downstream in mine I have both a right and left hand bank :chuckle: . On the Skagit we COULD say near bank and far bank, and for those wading out too far ANY bank so long as it is dry :chuckle: :chuckle: . Just means I should be sure to cut off all hooks at the bend until I find what works best in whatever flow I'm in .

As for the riffle hitch, I just ordered a book from my new book club on THAT subject .

Now if someone would check out the video I was alluding to and post back as to whether river right or river left is correct, I might find myself less confused and finally able to LET THIS THREAD DIE.

Thanks all,

ws

 

[fredaevans]

WS, maybe you can 'cut a good deal' with Spey Bubba aka

Dr. Way Yin in Bellingham. One of the worlds top 2 handed, excellent instructor, and not that far away from where I think your located. Lets see: Spey lesson afternoon ... you provide a 12 pack of very good mixed beers, maybe a beach side bbq, or good sandwitchs in a cooler and ongoing access to 'secret hid-e-hole' river access.

So to recap: you get lessons from one of the best of the best, AND probably get to eat/drink half the food and beer. Not bad, not bad at all.

This could be a good deal all-round.
:devil:

Your other option ... all-be-it not til next March, would be to join us at the Spey Casting Charity Clinic #2 down here on the Rogue.
fae

 

[sinktip]

I agree with Brian that this can be confusing and especially agree on the riffling hitch setup. I still need to stop and look at the fly v. river to get it right.

As for your question, the video in question is river left. The way I remember it is:

When you are standing at rivers edge and looking at the far bank, if the river is flowing from your right to your left you have river left. If instead it is going from left to right, you have river right.

Once you get the directions and the casts down, then you only have to worry about current speed and wind direction. fyi: Don't try executing a Snap-T in fast current with a strong downstream wind. It works but hopefully your wader repair kit does as well Trust me on that one.

 

[watersprite]

Fred,

Not to worry, I count myself as one of his many fans/admirers. I met Dr. Yin at the Sandy River clave this past spring, asked him to dial in the new Orvis spey rod for me with the XLT 8/9 which he happily did and discussed a future meeting on the Nooksack River (got his business card). You bet I'll be seeing him again, I just want to make sure that I can at least cast, to some degree, the rods I own beforehand. I also want my son to attend which means getting him up to speed with casting ANY fly rod (he appears to be catching on, took him to the Stilly the other day to wet a line).

ws

 

[watersprite]

Alright Duggan! Now I got it. It's where the river is *going* and NOT from where it's coming from. Now that's simple enough for even me to grasp.

Thanks all for the clarifications...

ws

 

[Dana]

watersprite, you mentioned you have a Windcutter, right? If it is a relatively recent purchase there is a great diagram near the back of the little booklet that comes with all RIO lines detailing the whole 'river left/river right" thing. It's on page 78.

Let me contact Simon and Jim and I'll see if we can put it up on the Spey Pages as a reference for everyone.

And yup, that "badspey" is a single spey on river left...

 

[watersprite]

Dana,

Yes the booklet does have a diagram in the back on page 78, but again I was lost in the terminology, i.e., right bank, left bank vs. river right, river left. I'm just getting old; too many years doing legal research, I look way too deeply into the contruction/intent of the written word, sometimes blinded to the obvious. Your video sequence, explained, has been a great help here.

Maybe it has some roots in wind direction: NW winds, okay - winds from the NW going SE or winds from the SE going NW? See? Geesh, now I'm confused again :hehe: .

ws