[Grampa Spey]

There appears to be a lot of Urban legend, marketing mojo and incorrect history re Sage's Brown rods versus the Green rods of the same size.

I would like to hear from Sage re the history and time lines of the brown to green and what graphites were used and when they were changed in specific models.

The rods I'm interested in learning about are:

7136 Brown rod versus Green Rod
6126 Brown rod versus Green Rod
9140 Brown rod versus Green Rod
10151 Brown rod versus Green Rod

If there are questions on other Sage rods, please list them.

To limit the Urban legends and more ???'s, maybe we could limit the history/responses to Sage Reps and/or People working for Sage or rod builders like Meis and Gary.

 

[sagefly]

Good call Grampa Spey, would put an end to all the confusion.

 

[Grampa Spey]

We are still waiting for clarification from Sage

The UK and Europe may open another kettle of fish/urban legend as many companies test different products there before going after the big USA market.

 

[sagefly]

Good point Grampa, I dont think that the economies of scale would work out to ahve d/h rods set up for different colours in different markets.

But as soon as the boys from Sage let us know we will be all knowledgable.

 

[FKrow]

My take on the 6126 & 8126 brown vs. green.

I have both the early first year production browns and later (2 yrs old) green. The green 6126 & 8126 were included in a trade for some books.

On the 6126: They both are made of Graphite IV, are the same lenght with three pcs construction. The flex / stiffness is very close if not identical in my opinion.

I also have the 8124 brown and 8126 green, they are both Graphite IV and are identical in length at 12ft 6in ( the 8124 is not labeled correctly). The cork is longer on the brown, the green is similar to the 6126 which is shorter. Both of these brown/green are identical in flex/stiffness in my opinion. The longer vs. shorter cork does make the rods feel somewhat different.

I realized that individual rods from the same design will have slightly different flex stiffness and there will always be some small variation.


Regards,
Fred Krow

 

[sinktip]

I have sent my SAGE contact a note asking them to weigh in on this. Let you know what I get back.

sinktip

 

[pcjohnson]

Spey Rod Colors

Hello All,
This thread was brought to my attention so I thought I would help out....
I will speak specifically to Grampa Speys questions:
7136 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference
6126 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference
9140 Brown vs. Green? Well, this one is a little more convoluted.
Originally, we had the brown 9140-3. Then we had a 9140-3 DS. Then we went to a 4-piece 9140-4. I think everyone owned one of these brown rods. Then we changed some graphite and introduced the 9140-4 in the SLT Brown, in our traditional Spey series. We have had many 9140-4 rods in a couple of families.
10151-4 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference.

If anyone else has questions regarding the Spey rods and the history of them, please let us know at [email protected].
I will try and keep up with this thread for further questions as well....

Thanks
Paul Johnson
Marketing Manager
Sage Manufacturing

 

[pcjohnson]

Regarding the foreign markets...

Oh Yeah, I forgot to address this one.
Basically, we use some folks in Europe to test some proto types. However the European market is still larger (for Spey rods) than the US market.
Thanks,
Paul Johnson

 

[sinktip]

Thanks Paul!

Another example of what makes the Speypages great!

Paul, one more question. Wasn't there a graphite change between the old brown and the green 7136-4?

 

[Philster]

Thanks Paul!

Another example of what makes the Speypages great!

Paul, one more question. Wasn't there a graphite change between the old brown and the green 7136-4?

Yeah... My understanding, having been there for all three models of the 7136 is there was the original brown noodle, followed by graphite and design changes to make the green, which then underwent a color change to the current "tigerseye" brown.

Could be wrong. Have been before...

 

[sinktip]

That was my understanding as well Philster. I certainly thought that the green 7136-4 was a beefier version of the ol' brown noodle.

 

[Grampa Spey]

Thanks to Paul @ Sage and Sinktip for contacting him

Hello All,
This thread was brought to my attention so I thought I would help out....
I will speak specifically to Grampa Speys questions:
7136 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference
6126 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference
9140 Brown vs. Green? Well, this one is a little more convoluted.
Originally, we had the brown 9140-3. Then we had a 9140-3 DS. Then we went to a 4-piece 9140-4. I think everyone owned one of these brown rods. Then we changed some graphite and introduced the 9140-4 in the SLT Brown, in our traditional Spey series. We have had many 9140-4 rods in a couple of families.
10151-4 Brown vs. Green? Color is the only difference.

If anyone else has questions regarding the Spey rods and the history of them, please let us know at [email protected].
I will try and keep up with this thread for further questions as well....

Thanks
Paul Johnson
Marketing Manager
Sage Manufacturing

Paul, thanks for the clear and concise response.

Sinktip, is there some way to "sticky" this response to have it as a quick reference when the urban legends of brown versus green Sage rods appears again.

 

[Philster]

The only problem Grampa is that I'm very sure that the gentelman is wrong. I do believe there is no difference between the green model and the "tigerseye" brown model that replaced it, but that there is considerable difference between the pre-2000 original brown one and the green that replaced it in I believe 2000, possibly early 2001, and that frankly there was tweak earlier in the '90s because the butts were breaking. I should mention I worked for a Sage dealer during that transition period and we were given a new green one to test and there was much hoopla from the rep about the redesign. You may even know him. Is Jamie Lyle still the guy down there?

Anyway, I await to proven wrong, but if someone has a sage catalog for the years 2000 and 2001 they could settle it pretty quickly...

 

[kush]

I am sorry, but I take issue with the only difference between the 10151 brown and green being colour. As someone who had 4 different brown versions (they all became unscheduled 5-piece'rs) and then was given a green replacement - they were very different rods! If for nothing else the green rod is still in 4 pieces!

There was also significant difference in the actions. The original was one of the sweetest casting rods that I have had my hands on. I loved that rod - at least until it broke! It is my understanding that the original had a boron butt-piece and that the newer green stuck with the graphite IV all the way through. Evidentally this solved the breaking issue. Unfortunately, it also altered the casting characteristics. The "new" 10151 while a good rod - is not special.

Fortunately for me, after 1 season with the greenie I got hooked up with CND and had a hand in developing some rods that really fit my style. As a result my 10151 green doesn't get to see the light of day very often. So...:roll: if someone is looking for a good deal on a lightly used 10151 - let me know.

 

[GPearson]

I agree with philster and kush. If they only changed color then different color paint really effects the action of a rod. I don't think so.

 

[Bob Pauli]

Perhaps Paul will refer the question to the engineering section of Sage, for confirmation or correction.

 

[pcjohnson]

Here we go...

Hello All,
Once again, we have tried to help, but apparently we are wrong.
I will put together a complete list of every spey rod we have ever made, with action, pieces and colors. This will put to bed a lot of myths. However, I am not sure that we still won't have ney sayers out there.
Philster, out of curiosity, what dealer did you work for?
Thanks,
Paul Johnson
15 - year Spey caster
8 - year guide
4 - year shop manager (Kiene's Fly Shop, Sacramento)
8 - year Sage employee
Marketing Manager
Sage Manufacturing

 

[Philster]

Hey Paul, I sent you my Curriculum Vitae, offline. The rep who I was dealing with at the time was Jamie Lyle. I hope he's still working. Still the best I ever saw. Kiene's was a little far for me to shop at, I was centered in San Francisco at the time.

 

[Philster]

Hello All,
Once again, we have tried to help, but apparently we are wrong.
I will put together a complete list of every spey rod we have ever made, with action, pieces and colors. This will put to bed a lot of myths. However, I am not sure that we still won't have ney sayers out there.

I just did a quick check a few reference sources. They state that the euro action rods are made of graphite IV. They further state that the traditional models like the 7136-4 I've been talking about are made of graphite IIIe. My original 91410-4 and 7136-4 both say they are made of graphite III

Is there a difference between graphite III and graphite IIIe. Would that difference affect the action of a rod if one was merely substituted for another. Might a rod designer not take the opportunity to tweek the design of a rod to take advantage of the new material. Might that not be considered a change to the rod?

 

[SSPey]

Philster, the III vs IIIe were my thoughts exactly. Either the IIIe affected the action (sure felt like it!) or it didn't and the change was only marketing and cosmetics. I vote for the former.