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Mr. Mom
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Every time I see a true underhand caster (long leader, short head, etc.) do a demo (so far always on tape), All they show is the single spey or switch cast, or whatever they call it in their vernacular. What about downstream casts like the double or snake roll? Do they get the same performance in terms of distance and loop shape? I imagine they can just get leader stick with the snake, and can probably boom that, but what about the double? Haven't seen "The perfect cast" yet, and don't know that I will. I'll probably wait the 8 months for the Rio DVD.
 

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chrome-magnon man
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yeah, you can do a double spey underhand cast. you lift the line off the water but leave the leader and line on the water, and make your upstream sweep short, just sliding the leader and fly along on the surface, keeping your top hand in close--if casting right handed I touch my right hand to my left shoulder, then bring the rod around to form the D loop. I can't remember whether I did a double spey underhand style when we were filming the underhand section of the RIO DVD--I think I did. I did a bunch of typical spey casts underhand style to show how you can use the underhand with a variety of spey casts.

I used a RIO 8/9 Scandinavian Head during the video shoot and left it full length (44.5ft) rather than cut it as I wanted to show that the underhand cast works well with longer heads too. One of the hallmarks of classic underhand style is that only the leader anchors on the water, but sometimes (and especially as head length increases) you will have a bit of line make brief contact as well--you can see this in the Syrstad and Mortensen videos if you watch closely, as well as on the first cast Stavmo makes (right before the title "Scandanavian Spey Casting") on the RIO International Speycasting video.

One of the things I've always been about (and one of the motivations behind speypages.com) is demystifying speycasting, and I tried to do this during the underhand segment of the new RIO DVD. I haven't seen much of it--just a few brief clips at the end of the day--but I hope it helps folks to understand the underhand a bit better and inspires them to go out and give it a try.
 

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Philster said:
Every time I see a true underhand caster (long leader, short head, etc.) do a demo (so far always on tape), All they show is the single spey or switch cast, or whatever they call it in their vernacular. What about downstream casts like the double or snake roll? Do they get the same performance in terms of distance and loop shape? I imagine they can just get leader stick with the snake, and can probably boom that, but what about the double? Haven't seen "The perfect cast" yet, and don't know that I will. I'll probably wait the 8 months for the Rio DVD.
Downstream wind.
I find it easy to do a snake roll. With short heads and long leaders, it's easy to change direction for the cast. 90 degree or even upstream.
I also find that a snake roll do not desturb the water in the same way as the double underhand cast.
 

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Double Underhand Cast??

When castin with use of all kinds of forms of the underhand cast we use snake rolls and all kind of snaps, but seldom a double spey. Most of the Scandinavian casters simple swith hands when the wind is coming on the top ahd direction.
 

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Ullsock said:
When castin with use of all kinds of forms of the underhand cast we use snake rolls and all kind of snaps, but seldom a double spey. Most of the Scandinavian casters simple swith hands when the wind is coming on the top ahd direction.
That's natural for us Scandinavians, since we got one arm on each side of the body. :hihi: ( but still there are not all of us who can use both arms equivalent )

For me there are no problem with casting from both riversides, and with either left or right arm. :smokin:
( practice is essensial )
 

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Mr. Mom
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ullsock said:
When castin with use of all kinds of forms of the underhand cast we use snake rolls and all kind of snaps, but seldom a double spey. Most of the Scandinavian casters simple swith hands when the wind is coming on the top ahd direction.
So am I understanding that you are either doing a snake roll or a "single spey" on your downstream side between yourself and the bank? I guess the short heads allow you some flexibility even a windcutter/delta wouldn't allow. I may have to invest in a loop adapted system :)
 

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I live by/am a bailiff/instructor a small Norwegian salmon river and my experience is that they either change hand and use the Single Spey on the appropriate side - regardless of the wind or some (those who have learnt the "Modern Speycast" à la Syrstad) use the Snake Roll. But I have noticed that I have seldom seen this on the left bank! I have never seen anyone using a Reverse Snake Roll. Lines between a caster and the wind make me nervous and I have seen a few accidents!

A Double Spey is perfectly possible remembering the shortness of the line and thereby abbreviating the movements. I've been playing around with another cast which works best with short lines where one - standing on the left bank with the left hand up and line on the dangle brings the rod down towards the water (Snap T sort of movement) which brings the line back on the downstream side of the angler ready for a forward cast. Less movement. Still in its infancy. We start our salmon season tonight and I'll be able to try this with a fly and crash helmet!

Regards
Steven
 

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Underhand and Snake Rolls / Single Spey

We use snake rolls on the downsstream side of us. You need a little more room between jourself and the bank/trees as you would need for a single spey/Snap T on the upstream side of you.

In underhand casting the making of the snake roll is done with the bottom hand (working your butt grip like an up side down joystick). The upperhand is the rotation point where you work your move around.

In single speys you again use your bottom hand for getting the energy into the system (rod/line) and for changing direction by (situation left hand bottom, right hand on top) at first you swing your bottom hand out to the left side and then eccellarating it to a position under the (lifted right elbow) when you now in the same movement rotate your body in such a position that your shoulders are on a 90 degrees angle to were you want to cast, you'v made the singel spey using underhand technique. The final cast is made by dropping your right (upper arm) elbow forward and down with a follow through with the bottom hand.
 
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