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I caught the last 20 minutes or so of a fly fishing production on spey fishing the Thompson. I thought it was nicely done and illustrated the lure of fishing the spey rod and the attraction of the Thompson to all the diehard lovers of that river. It also was pretty straightforward about the small numbers of fish, so I doubt it will attract the hordes. There was also some discussion about management of the river, including questioning the bait fishing that was allowed. Though they were pretty careful about not taking shots at bait fisherman, one guy couldn't restrain himself and make a rather classic remark that went something like, "The bottom line is that bait fishing is for little fat kids.":hihi: Never heard that one before and it caused a chuckle.
 
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The show was very nicely done. It did talk about how there is more to fishing a two hander than just catching fish and yes I loved the comment about fishing bait is for little fat kids.:chuckle: I wish there was more shows like this one. Could make a series about swinging for Steel and travel to all different rivers but not tell anyone which rivers they are. Would have the best of both worlds considering it would show some great footage of spey casting and fishing but not sell out any rivers.
 

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A BIG fish is a GOOD fish
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tivo central

fly fishing america. berret production. it was a hoot to see. id stay at the hilltop when /if i fish the thompson. great line indeed about bait. lol it will be on again i m sure
 

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And the "Fat Kid" comment came from none other than our own member Brian Niska. I wonder how many of the guys in that show are speypages guys?

Nobuo was in there as well, I think he was the only one without a piercing of some sorts:saeek: :cool:
 

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TheSteelheadBum said:
The show was very nicely done. It did talk about how there is more to fishing a two hander than just catching fish and yes I loved the comment about fishing bait is for little fat kids.:chuckle: I wish there was more shows like this one. Could make a series about swinging for Steel and travel to all different rivers but not tell anyone which rivers they are. Would have the best of both worlds considering it would show some great footage of spey casting and fishing but not sell out any rivers.
I was there when they were filming all of this and when I inquired I was told that they would not be mentioning the name of the river.
 

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It was a good show. I enjoyed the commentary from the anglers. It was fun to see Brian Niska on the show. I recognized his name from Speypages. I swear I saw a shot of Kush in there....
 

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Great show. There definately needs to be bait ban on rivers where there are runs of wild steelhead. What's the point of catch and release, if a steelhead swallows a hook full of roe and cannot be revived? Hopefully we can work on getting regs like this changed to help our future runs of wild steelhead. Very cool to see some speypages guys on the show. Good work!

Jason
 

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I suggest a review of some of the mortality research on bait v. fly before jumping to any conclusions. While there is an impact of bait usage, particularly in increased mortality for parr, there is very little evidence to show higher mortality for adult fish when compared to non-bait methods.
 

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Good Moring

On the TV link listed on this thread the menu shows that the show will be on again Monday 08/07 @ 11:30 am- 12:00 pm. Does anyone know if that TV channel is shown in British Columbia Canada--and if so what channel that it would be shown.

Regards,
harley.
 

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sinktip said:
I suggest a review of some of the mortality research on bait v. fly before jumping to any conclusions. While there is an impact of bait usage, particularly in increased mortality for parr, there is very little evidence to show higher mortality for adult fish when compared to non-bait methods.
Thats probably hold true if the same conciencious angler is fishing both styles for your survey. Not sure how it is in your neck of the woods, but I'd say at least 65% of the bait fishermen I have encountered here in BC pretty much don't give a damn about the fish and handle them very poorly once landed. Kept out of the water far too long, thrown back in, dragged up on the rocks because they have no waders or boots on.
Its not just about the bait....its about the caliber of fishermen it brings to the flow and how they treat it once they are there.
 

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Rod,

I have certainly seen my share of fly guys that treat fish the same way as you describe. Poor fish handling is not limited by tackle type.

I'm not trying to get into an anecdotal exchange but I will say that the interactions with gear fishermen I have had on the Thompson have been very positive. I'm talking etiquette here more than fish handling. I just hate to fan the anti-bait flames as a river as special as the Thompson deserves as many caring anglers looking out for it as possible.

sinktip
 

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sinktip said:
I suggest a review of some of the mortality research on bait v. fly before jumping to any conclusions. While there is an impact of bait usage, particularly in increased mortality for parr, there is very little evidence to show higher mortality for adult fish when compared to non-bait methods.
Sinktip,

Most information on catch and release rates using different angling techniques exists in the " grey literature" (gov reports etc.) and not in peer-reviewed journals. There is a lack of studies with the direct goal of comparing mortality rates.

The attached link is to an article that came out in 2005 and has some interesting estimates of catch and release mortality.

http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577/M04-192.1

It is not accessible without a subscription, but if you're interested drop me a email.

PEte
 

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Thanks Pete. I have a pretty good collection of the various studies at least through 2004 from all the work the Wild Steelhead Coalition did several years ago. This includes studies from Bob Hooten in B.C., work out of the University of Idaho as well as some data from both the WDFW and ODFW. While incidental mortality rates varied from study to study, there seemed to be relative agreement that for adult fish, there was no significant mortality difference between bait and fly. The factor influencing mortality the greatest were barbs.

I believe the Steelhead Society of BC has also compiled some data on this issue.
 

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Lots of gear guys up there are very nice and treat fish well but the other half of the gear chuckers i see don't even wear waders...i wonder how they land the fish..hmmmm i can't see them freezing themselves to land a fish in thier tennis shoes in nov and dec. This season i saw several fish flopping on the rocks while these guys with no waders were landing and taking pictures of the fish.

Waders should be in the regulations as mandatory for river systems that have any kind of catch and release reg.


sinktip said:
Rod,

I have certainly seen my share of fly guys that treat fish the same way as you describe. Poor fish handling is not limited by tackle type.

I'm not trying to get into an anecdotal exchange but I will say that the interactions with gear fishermen I have had on the Thompson have been very positive. I'm talking etiquette here more than fish handling. I just hate to fan the anti-bait flames as a river as special as the Thompson deserves as many caring anglers looking out for it as possible.

sinktip
 

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Sink tip,

perhaps the greatest danger to fish is hook size, this of course is true of any gear(spoons,flies,bait hooks)..

I have most of the studies that you mentioned and there is a SLIGHT edge to mortality on the bait end of things but it is SLIGHT. One thing to keep in mind when reviewing this data is the calibre of angler participating in the study. In most cases these folks aren't your run of the mill joebagodonuts but rather seasoned anglers.

Sinktip if you have spent much time on the Thompson you have surely run across the unique phenomenon of tethered trout. This is what happens when bottom bouncers break off and their bait is essentiall tied to the bottom. Unsuspecting Trout come along and take the bait only to become stuck to the bottom. I have not seen this with Steelhead suggesting that either they are not that interested in still fished bait or are strong enough to pull the line from the rocks.

Sink tip the real reason to ban bait on the Thompson(and any other wild summer run Steelhead river) is it's effectiveness on stale fish. I am very confident that all gear(lures,wet flies, bait, dry fly) are equally effective on fresh fish(when presented properly in good water). Once fish have been caught or have been in the river awhile there is a huge difference in effectivness. Of course C&R mortality multiplies as fish are recaptured. There is science behind this as the provinces own creel surveys show that bait catches far more fish in mid-late season than all other gear types. If you would like something a little more visible go to the T in November/December and watch the guys bottom bouncing the town runs in tennis shows. These guys catch more double stripers in a day than you catch all season. The best way to limit our impact on these fish is quite simply to catch less.

As for you idea of a bait ban limiting the 'friends of the river' I have to call BS. A bait ban doesn't stop anyone from fishing. Gear fishermen have many types of lures at their disposal. These include jigs, spoons, spinners, wool ties, pink worms, gooey bobs, corkies, spin n glows etc. It pretty much comes down to what I said on the show.

Dana I cannot remark on what was mentioned on the show as I haven't seen it yet. I do know that the producer told Scott that the river wouldn't be mentioned. Personally, given the context of the show, it doesn't bother me one bit if the name was mentioned. Even though I haven't seen it I have to assume the show wasn't presented in a way that made it look like the river was full of fish.

Dana,

if you meant your comment as a slight on Scott(who set the show up-I will post more in a minute) I suggest you take a hard look at yourself.......the mighty T is mentioned many times on this site, even in your own posts.

Brian Niska
 

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It is an interesting and entertaining story how this show came to be. The show was meant to be focused on Angie the fishing goddess but for a variety of reasons this was abandoned. For those that like an entertaining read(reminds me of an ozzy song recently covered by Tool and A Perfect Circle) check out Angies accounts of that week a couple of months ago. It is titled

ANGIE VERSUS EVERY SINGLE MAN IN SPENCE’S BRIDGE EXCEPT FOR JW

and can be found at:

thefishingoddess.com
It is an entertaining read to say the very least, perhaps my favourite quote from the piece:

"Oh, And Scott McGarva you *#@%*. This guy can out cast you with more grace and beauty, making you look like a BEGINNER!. Unlike you however, he cast like that with a heavy sink tip! LOSER!"

I was pretty happy to fly under Angie's radar so to speak

I was on my way back from two months guiding up north and fishing a couple of days with Francois and other buds. Ran into Uliscott and espn crew filming with Angie. Ended up fishing a couple of days with them after Angie's exit.
Actually she stuck around Spences Bridge which made for the type of entertainment that cannot be made up. Those in the area at the time may have heard of her exploits which seemed to be straight out of some show on fox or spike.Actually what really should have happened is a show about what really happened including Ang flashing the camera man her hatchery breasts and getting kicked out of various establishments. Yes this footage rests somewhere on the cutting room floor. BTW I noticed Ang left out the part where some dude was attacked by a fish bonker swingin' mountain woman.See you really can't make this stuff up no matter what drugs you do......or forget to do.

BTW I have no problem with the Angie as I don't know her, then again her site is a little freaky deeky.

Nick the producer's(shinehead) side of the story can be found at:

drakemag.com
 

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Brian,

Good to see you back posting, Its been a while.

'tip
 

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Comments given on the Thompson (paraphrased here) were that the fishing could be skinny and therefore it was not the place to be for the average tourist fisherman looking to bag a few but rather it was the place where die hard fly casters go to catch a difficult and unplentiful fish in an equally difficult manner (referring to swinging a fly with a spey rod).
 
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