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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
I'm having boo-koo trouble with my single spey with tips. I'm using a 14' 8/9wt that is pretty fast, but when I put tips on it and a bit of weight to the fly, I can't seem to sweep the fly far enough upstream to get an anchor. My fly and line seem to be sticking below me too much on the dangle sometimes a well. I can do a snap t and double spey with the sinking lines, but this single spey is killing me. Any ideas?

Also, do any of you use weighted flies with heavy (300gr+) sinking lines?
 

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Lift and strip in a little

to get the tip on the surface before you start. Adding the spiral will also make it easier to get it up and into position. Peter's suggestion is also good to go to the circle spey. Longer and heavier tips make it more difficult.
 

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Ted has it right, it is essential to get the tip up to the surface before you start the cast. To accomplish this one does 2 things, as Ted says take 2 or 3 strips then use a shallow and slow "shotgun lift". The shotgun lift does not point your rod tip skyward but in essence is slowly and smoothly breaking most your floating section of line free of the surface.

Once you have the line free from the surface (you should be able to clear it most of the way to the sinktip) then commence the casting stroke. This motion should also be smooth with a gradual accelleration until the required power has been applied then have the tip slide smoothly into the anchor position.

I find when tutuoring casters that there is a reliance on brute force and speed, where in fact it should be technique which results in a smooth almost effortless stroke. When you watch an expert caster you immediately notice the apparent ease and economy of effort. Sure, there is a serious application of power, but it is confined to a couple of key parts of the stroke - the end of the sweep upstream and again at the the end of the forward stroke up to the stop. Other than that it is smooth and slow.
 

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A certain Ian Gordon who I know used to bend my ear about fishing sink tips. He said it was impossible to cast properly with them, but I always said they were great fish catchers. I have now changed to fishing a sinker or intermediate and catch the same if not more fish.

The only way to treat a sunk tip is as a sunk line, and roll it to the top. Then start your single spey from there.But the last 15ft is very difficult to control as it behaves differently from the rest of the line.

I'm sorry but I cannot get my head round the circle speys whatever.
I can single and double spey, well, off both shoulders and that is enough for me. I occasionally use a snake roll but only if the audiance is pretty and blond.
 

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If you are using a short belly line then the slow lift should work great as mentioned above. With long belly lines I think the spiral single really comes into its own. But I still would go to the Snap T as my go to cast with tips - again very slow but without a pause on the lift. The only time I need to first roll cast is if the current is pretty squirrly or very slow on the dangle - this causes slack and lets the line sink deep so a roll cast helps get it up
 

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Gentlemen,

Never say never, or there is only one way to do something, for as soon as you do someone will prove you wrong. :smokin:

Malcolm, I believe fishing with sink-tips is a relatively new technique in Britain. When Derek Brown first came over here 10 or so years ago he had never even heard of them and was quite intrigued with mine. I imagine that the natural reluctance of tradition is hindering the widespread use of tips (and therefore the development of the necessary techniques) in Britain - just as it is for the use of full sinking lines here in North America.

Without trying to be arguementative, casting tips even with a properly cut long belly line is little different than casting a floater. I regularly cast 15' of type IV #10 sinker on my extended long belly Derek Brown Speydriver and I effectively fish at some extremely long distances (the river I habituate calls for distance). The only real adjustment that is required is a little less wait time for the D-loop and the forward stroke - so the tip doesn't sink too deep. My casts of choice are single speys and snake rolls off both shoulders as they are the most dynamic and powerful.

When I am serious about getting down and dirty I go with Skagit type set-ups and Ed Ward's Sustained Load Cast which handles tips like they didn't exist.
 

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kush said:
Gentlemen,
Malcolm, I believe fishing with sink-tips is a relatively new technique in Britain...
Yes, could be... though if one reads e.g. Hugh Falkus´s Spey Casting from 1994 I believe, sink tip lines were mentioned there... Hmm... maybe late Hugh had been to Canada, and learned all about Spey there. :eek:

Also Hugh´s Book Salmon Fishing from 1985 edition mentions sink tip lines, FYI
 

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There's sink tips and sink tips, the things H Falkus using were mild things, bearly taking the fly subsurface. I used to use an XLT cut back at 27ft with some fast tips on the end, but I still think they spoiled the technique. I now use a fast sink Partridge line whch really gets down to where the fish are just now.

Rolling a line up is easy. What is this spinning gear that you talk about? is it a wheel for producing wool from fleece?
 

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yup, I have a Hardy DT10F/S and a Cortland DT11F/S. Both are 10' tips, type I-II, so probably don't hold a candle to a full sinker
 

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Peter,

Right you are, by all means do what works! This is about fishing - not casting - it is just that there are alot of ways to get this fishing thing done. My way is not any better than your's or Ed's it is just different, that's all.
 

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Peter - I have been in situations where a slow lift will not bring a tip up - if you have squirrly water at the dangle you often do not have a tight line to start and a lift sometimes won't get the tip up - a few strips and a single roll cast often easily gets the line up and tight so you can then go into whatever cast floats your boat - a single, snap T or circle with much less effort
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I tried a few of the techniques you fellas mentioned. The slow lift with my Windcutter with a 400gr big boy worked ok, I could't get the spiral cast down, but it did seem to pick the line up better when I switched to a Rio Mid Spey.

I've just stated about a year ago and you guys have been a HUGE help. There's a lot of stuff to remember before, during, and after the cast I've found. But man, it's fun!

A.C.
 

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One of the biggest factors that seem to help my casts and which at times I tend to forget is the grip - if you are gripping even marginally too hard things fall apart - a very light cradeling of the rod is all that is necessary and the thing will fly - I think it must have to do with the upper and lower hands working together - if you grip too tightly one hand or the other will not be able to get the fulcrum working properly and one hand then governs too much - generally the upper hand and you are just pushing the rod forward rather than getting the fulcrum motion that really gives you the acceleration and the rod stop!
 
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