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Indicators Anonymous
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Discussion Starter #1
Recieved this private message from a FlyTalk member today after I made a joke about how the XLT needs to watch out because the Rio Grande Spey is about to hit the market.

This was the private message:

before you say anything about the xlt against the grande spey learn to cast first :razz: Even a windcutter(the biggest peice of **** out there)is better than the last grande spey proto I tried.
 

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Coednakedspey
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Sorry.....

I couldn't help but laugh after I read that PM. Someone has a sense of humour I guess.

Ok, down to business, what are the proposed specs on the new Rio Grande Spey, anyone? What is the premise/thinking behind this line? Where is it's niche in the spey casting market?
 

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New Rio line

Simon had the new prototype at the Sandy Sepy Clave and most casters were not that impressed with it - it is a long belly line (not sure the length but perhaps similar to the Accelerator and I am thinking without the hinge. Even Simon said after casting the XLT that it handled much better that the new RIO line. Not sure if they have tweaked it some since then?
 

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XLT vs Accelerator

How does the XLT compare to the Accelerator? I've been using the Accelerator this season on a #7 and #8 and am covering some water with it. Is the XLT that much better? Thanks, Ed
 

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line choice

The XLT has a longer belly - maybe not much longer in the 7/8 wt. The Accelerator has a hinge that some folks like and some hate. I have an Accelerator on a 9 wt rod that I have used for a couple of years that I like ok though I have tried the XLT on the same rod and prefer it. I recently got the 7/8 XLT for my Scott 1287 and it is s true joy - a really great fishing combination. It seems to very easily pick up to 90 feet and cast to 100 feet and beyond but also handles well at 50'. Very smooth handling line. Have not tried the Accelerator on this rod but definitely prefer the XLT over the Rio Midspey and Airflo long Delta (the 7/8 long Delta is a great casting line on this rod)
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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I believe Sparky is referring to the small yet vocal group who take offense when a person fails to have a religious experience with a fly line :hehe:

That being said, I have fallen in love with the line too after having spent many more hours casting it. I still can't cast the whole head with the 10150-4 brown, but I recall I had no trouble doing it with the Burkie at the Sandy Clave. Still I love my 10150-4 with the right length of it (75-80 feet?) and with several other lines, it's as smooth as butter with a well-matched line. Wading ankle deep made a huge difference verses wading waist deep too. The whole time I was thinking about Steve casting that whopping distance in the UK - that keeps me inspired to work harder while also trying to find a rod/match for it, etc.

I just sent it to the next member for trials on the water in the pacific northwest, so I'll now be buying the XLT in a range of weights and match them with my rods and casting preferences (I prescribe to Dec Hogan's philosophy of line speed and easy casting for the purpose of catching fish first and foremost, if I understood his words right at the Sandy Clave between chuckling at his entertaining jokes and demonstrations!).

I won't stop using my Windcutter, deep winter heads, MidSpeys, Accelerator, good ol' DTFs and soon to be obtained long delta Spey, but I will definitely enjoy fishing the XLT. Great choices - isn't life grand? :)

I truly appreciate Bruce letting us have this line to play with. Hopefully we in the forum can get more gear (of all sorts perhaps) in the future to experiement with this way. The extra time I had with the line that I would not have had at the flyshop or flyfishing show casting pool sure sold me! I will be showing my gratitude with my dollars at the flyshop.


BTW - Rick, awesome replies to those questions!
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Sinktip,

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Sparky what was the pupose of this thread? OK, RIO is beginning to work on a new line and the one Simon had at Sandy was probably the first or at least a very early prototype of the new line. Of course it wouldn't cast as well as the XLT which had been under development for the better part of two years!

And what does Simon supposedly saying that he felt the XLT was a better casting line at the Clave have to do with whether the new Grand Spey will be a good casting line or a bad castng line? After all it was only the beginning point for the line!! I wonder what you would have thought of the first interation of the XLT before the 2 years of development and changes?

As I said, the XLT has been under development for the better part of two years by the time it was at the Clave. Knocking the RIO prototype in its first configuration is bad form and totally uncalled for.
 

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OK...
Here is the deal.

There are two philosophies when it comes to casting one is to use a short line and to make long casts you need to strip and shoot. The other is to use a longer line and carry more of it in the aor (on the water). Both methods work exceptionally well! The Windcutter is no more a piece of **** than an XLT or any other spey line. The windcutter casts exceptionally well. as does the XLT. They just require a different technique. neither is superior neither id inferior. Just different!
personally I use both as well as a 120 foor double taper. I like them all and they all have in my opinion their time and place. Also a good share of it has to do with personal preference.
it's time for everyone to get off their high horse on both sides of this and allow people to have their own opinions because thats what they are.
Only opinions there is no truth!
I use the XLT and the double taper for all my floating line work. They both cast very well and are enjoyable to cast. I like the way the double taper turns over better than the XLT but the XLT is a little easier at distance and loads better in close.
However is I am going to be using sink tips I pull out the windcutters. I do not enjoy fishing sink tips even with a spey rod so I want it to be as easy as possible. For me it's easier to strip and shoot than to carry all that line plus a heavy head. Some people I know can use the XLT with leadcore effectivly but thats more work than I care to do, plus I am not into chopping into a 75 dollar fly line, but thats just me.
Bill McMillian was once asked what his method was. His response was that "his" method was to use many methods and the proper one for the situation. For me XLT&DT is the way to go for a floating line and the windcutter is the way to go for tips..
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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Discussion Starter #10
sinktip said:
Spark,

What was your point in posting this?

st
Sinktip,

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Sparky what was the pupose of this thread?
Juro said it...

I believe Sparky is referring to the small yet vocal group who take offense when a person fails to have a religious experience with a fly line.
Another board member and myself joked a few weeks ago about how there seems to be sort of an XLT Cult...in their eyes, if you dont love the line and rave about it you can not cast.

I had made a joke about it prior and I thought the private message I recieved yesterday obviously backed up my speculation.

Anyways...this thread was started in hopes of having some fun...oh well. :rolleyes:
 

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chill

Gee Flytyer chill - I only indicated what I heard Simon say - I made no mention of how the final Rio line will or will not handle. I actually do not know what stage the Rio line was in at the Sandy - if it was a first or 50th prototype - only that Simon said he thought he needed to do more tinkering. Rob is certainly right in saying the WC is great for what it is meant to do just as the XLT and I expect the new Rio will be. The original post indicated that the Rio line at the Clave did not cast very well and it didn't - that is all the comment is about other than a bash at WindCutter.
 

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We're just arguing about details.

Relative to what was available years ago, all the new Spey lines are in fact good lines, each with inherent advantages and disadvantages. I don't think we'll ever see a "perfect" fly line, although I expect we'll continue to see improvements, most being specializations for specific purposes.

In the same way, most fly rods on the market, even the cheap ones, are arguably an improvement on even top line fibreglass rods from the '60s.

The truth is that it's pretty hard to buy a truly awful fly line or fly rods these days.

Poul
 

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I may be wrong, but shouldn't we all remember that Simon is on the Rio payroll and we should be really, really careful about quoting him.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Rick J,

So why even say anything at all about the new RIO line if you don't know whether it is a first or 50th iteration of the prototype? To say anything about it without knowing this vital information is a disservice to Simon and RIO.

Be Bop got it right, we should all be damn careful about quoting someone when there is not way to verify what was or wasn't said. It matters not if Simon works for RIO or if it is someone who is not on the payroll of any tackle manufacturer.

As I said, it is bad form.
 

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Flytyer,
Actually I was not stating hearsay info - I was standing right next to Simon talking to him when he said this. He said the new Rio line did not cast as well as the XLT and needed some work. Does not mean that the final RIO line won't be a great line and I don't think anyone is saying that.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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It seems no harm no foul but my personal take is that given the choice between quoting and not quoting on this Forum...

We should appreciate that Simon is an honest and generous guy who thinks nothing of telling it like it is while spreading the Spey gospel (not to mention bringing things like the snake roll to the Spey community). I think this shows that we can count on him to say exactly what he thinks, no BS. But - one would be foolish to think that Simon and Rio will not work their butts off to develop a line that makes Simon say "that's it!" - I would bank on that, and I'll be pleased to purchase it when available.

I would expect nothing less from our sponsor!
 

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What do you XLT gurus think of using the floater with the sinking poly leaders ?

Anybody tried that yet.

Thanks in advance

PM
 

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XLT with Poly leaders

Boy you read my mind - I have several of them and plan to give them a great try this fall on the Klamath. I hate to cut my 7/8 XLT right away so thought this would be a great option. I have rigged my long Delta with loops so I can go to heavier sink tips if needed
 

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So you think it will be effective it appears.

Lets see what the others have to say, this may be the way I should go.

Thanks

PM
 

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I have been trying out a set for the last few weeks. They work extremely well. The fast sink is virtually unnoticeable on the end of my 9/10 mid-spey. The extra fast sink requires a little more effort but is a lot better than any of the chopped heads I used previously. The floater turns over nicely and carries a 10' length of straight mono with it. These leaders, I think, will take care of about ninety-five percent of my fishing needs.
 
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