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Discussion Starter #1
I'm one of those who is a newbee in Spey Casting or two handed rod casting. Most of the rivers I fish are river right. So my river left casts never really got to the point of being even halfway decent and consistant. In fact, this past summer/fall, I found myself avoiding river left casting situations/opportunitities.

Last week, I tuned/cut down the Scandinavian Shooting Head, our gift from SpeyBro, to fit the reel and new shooting head for my Meiser 9/10 Switch Rod. When I got through I practiced dry casting River Right with just the butt section that is the handles and reel with no line out.

It felt good and had a good balance. Then, for some reason I decided to try practicing the Double Spey and Snake Roll Cast with river left. To my surprise after a few dry casts, both casts felt good. Then, I decided to try the same dry casts with my 7141 butt section with a Loop 4 and the loaner GS 7/8. That felt good too.

So the next day I took both rods to fly casting hell, our local Napa River, where I couldn't wade, had tidal flows and winds that shifted around constantly with zero room behind for any backcast or a long D Loop. My Meiser rod worked well until the tide dropped and I was snagging up with the shooting head. Nothing wrong with the casts.

So I went to my 7141 with the Grand Spey floater. At least 80 % of my river left casts were good and most were going out to the color change at the reel.

Two days later I bought a Grand Spey 7/8 with tips. I returned to fly casters hell to try the new line. The floating head with a fifteen foot furled leader was going out 80% of the time to the color change at the reel. It, also, worked well with the Aqua Lux tip and the tip compensator borrowed from my GS 7/8. No tip compensator comes with the Grand Spey 7/8, another question for Spey Bro, like why not?

So Dry practicing with just the butt section and the reel and line with no line out appears to be a great way to practice when you can't get to the river. Also, you avoid breaking vases, ripping pictures and really getting into trouble that can happen with the long rods beside breaking the tips off.
 

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"Gramps," get your a.. North to the Rogue!

If you 'hurry' you'll be casting over 13,000 summer runs, river left, river right.

Practice makes perfect ... especially if there's a fly on the end of your leader.

Snigger, snigger:devil:

Let us know when you want to head north; as always for Board members, the jee/fae 'b and b' is good to go.
 

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Muscle memory is the key. Once you train your hands and arms to do the same motion each time, timing and power application are relatively easy. When I used to teach beginning and advanced classes we really stressed hand and arm position by giving reference points at the end of the back cast and end of the forward cast. You can practice this any time with or without a rod. If your hand does the correct thing, the rod will follow.

Few teaching videos (either single handed or double handed) do this much. Derek Brown does spend some time on this which I think really makes his video stand out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Rick J

I believe that the trainers for athletes and physical therapy people call what you described as Patterning. It involves both the muscles, hand movements (in this case) and the brain/CNS links which coordinate the movement or cause a short circuit.

I will be using more of it with the butt section of my spey/two handed rods with the reels attached.

What casts does Derek Brown go this with in his video?

Thanks
 

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Derek shows the end position for the back cast as you form the D loop. Stretch your arm out to the side parallel to the ground and as far back as it will go without too much strain. You then bend the elbow inwards - this puts your right hand level with and opposite the ear. This gives a very powerful position for the forward stroke.

This position is much more critical when using long belly lines. When using wind cutter style lines you can get by with a much shorter stroke with much less arm motion.

The main instructor I worked with had his Ph.D in Physical Education and was an instructor at Humboldt State, which gives you an idea why he thought this was so important. He was director of the Fenwick Fly Fishing Schools in West Yellowstone during the summer for a number of years. He did more for my casting than anyone!
 

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Re: Rick J

[QUOTEI believe that the trainers for athletes and physical therapy people call what you described as Patterning.[/QUOTE]

In theory, you can practice completely mentally, without a
rod in your hands, but I'm not sure I believe that.
 

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I believe the fellows at work call that day dreaming when they see me mentally practicing!!!
 

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dry casting

hi grampa, just came across your november post . ever since first video 20+ years ago i have practised as you describe, also broom handle hard rear hit to train for backcast [old hay bale behind head], both hands up off either shoulder. also grass casting with tt15ft wearing wrist weights, my own form of interval training, little and often. i believe mental practise is also helpful. anyhow result is i hit the ground running when i start mid march and can cast any shoulder straight or reversed [i agree reverse speys seem better due to mechanics force you into better mode.] incidentally in autumn i start different training for shooting season, once you're in your 60s you have to work to keep ahead of young bucks!! paul
 

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Discussion Starter #10
paul locke Dry Casting

Thanks for your comments.

When you are over 60 in my case 65, the old saying, "If you don't use it, you lose it!", is even more valid.

Since thst post, I have found that if I do the practice with just the bottom section with a reel and line attached, there is less forgetting on the part of my body and my mind.

Saturday, I went to our local river which can be a nightmare with tides, winds, stumps in the water and no back cast area. So I practiced my creation, my Awful Cast, created for the one spot where I can cast after the high tide recedes for awhile.

I practiced with Meise's new ocean rod, reel and my new SA line I got via the auction.

When I got there to cast and fish, like you noted, I had no real down time. My casts did what they were supposed to do.

The reward besides the enjoyment was a surprise 26 inch 6-7 pound striper on my steelhead fly.

I have a couple of Spey Rod cases that allow me to store the reel and line on the fisher section. I just leave them unzipped and grab a rod, reel and line to do a little dry casting when I have the time or I "need" to do it.

My wife has no problem with me practing with the reel end in the family room or living room. A full or half rod is dangerous to others, lamps and other stuff.
 

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dry casting

yes grampa, the old saying is right, i'm 63 and catching you up fast. are we the oldies here? some of the posts make me feel old! it was the falkus original video that emphasised the practise, and derek brown and michael evans also. strength is very important, i fish regularly with michael evans and he will hold my hands to give me feel of correct action and he has arms of steel, its not all timing. i also fish with ian gordon who won our casting championship 3 years ago and he's built like a brick s---house. i would reemphasise benefit of wrist band weights which help a lot and just wearing them around the place builds muscle and boy the rods feel lighter when you go without them. i get them from golds gym, on internet. i'll leave you in peace now, regards paul
 

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Darned youngsters...

I just wish you "young kids" would stop complaining - I'll be 70 in July - and still having fun fishing and hunting! My son-in-law is taking me to Flaming Gorge (Green River) this year for another trout expedition, and we'll be camping, too!

I also write for a shooting magazine, and just finished a contract to do 2 chapters for a shooting book.

Steelie fishing has been POOR for the past couple of months here in the northeast, as we have had too much snow (FEET of it) and below-zero cold!!! Just give it a couple of weeks!

BobK:D
 

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Darned youngsters...

I just wish you "young kids" would stop complaining - I'll be 70 in July - and still having fun fishing and hunting! My son-in-law is taking me to Flaming Gorge (Green River) this year for another trout expedition, and we'll be camping, too!

I also write for a shooting magazine, and just finished a contract to do 2 chapters for a shooting book.

Steelie fishing has been POOR for the past couple of months here in the northeast, as we have had too much snow (FEET of it) and below-zero cold!!! Just give it a couple of weeks!

By the way, at this slow time, I spend a lot of time tying flies and DRY CASTING with just the reel and butt section of my rod. It is good practice!

BobK:D
 

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flaming gorge, green river

hi bobk, explain type of fishing involved, wading? all single hand? brownies? rainbows? im practising for arctic russia & norway, 16' rods wading tits deep! so much to do, so little time! its reassuring to hear you oldies are still at it!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
BobK, paul locke

I'm not complaining.

If we didn't have two handed rods, I would not be fishing except for very small streams.

Two handed rod fishing should enable me to fish until I'm at least as old as you are BobK. :hehe:

Using a firing range helps to keep up your gun skills, and dry casting helps to keep up and improve our two handed rod casting skills.:)
 

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Hi, guys...

Paul, it's wading. I'll be taking two 6 weights - a 9 foot single hander, and an 11 1/2 foot spey rod. I'll use whichever one "fits" the river best - but probably both.

Fish species are browns, rainbows and cutthroats. I've heard that there are many good-sized fish involved. I'll probably do a lot of dry fly fishing (larger terrestial patterns) from what my son-in-law's old college buddies say. As they now live in the area, and fish it fairly often, it's like having "built-in" guides.

Yeah, guys, and I am still practicing when I watch TV or get some free time.

BobK;)
 

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dry casting

hey bobk that sounds great. tell me about the hunting. my son & i run bird shoots in uk oct thru jan, and some roe deer. on bird shoots i'd lift a 6-7lb gun 100-500 times a day depending.
 

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Yeah, but...

Lifting a gun 100 to 500 times per day to shoot driven birds isn't work, it's pure pleasure!

Most of my hunting here is self-initiated, as is the custom. Because whitetailed deer are so numerous, we are on a "lottery" for the number of permits each hunter receives. (Normal number is 3 permits - 1 buck and 2 does). These are much larger than roe deer, but smaller than red deer, and average about 150 lbs. (field dressed) for bucks, while the does average about 120 lbs. (Most people would say they are larger - but I am an honest sportsman.)

Yes, I enjoy pheasant shooting, but here we do what you would call "rough shooting". We use pointing dogs if we are fortunate enough to have them, or walk up the birds, and shoot them on the rise. Our Ruffed Grouse is a bird of the dense woods, and is very challenging. They are hunted along with Woodcock in dense areas. However, populations are down, due to habitat loss.

The "environmentalists" claim to want trees and wilderness, but the deer, grouse, pheasants, rabbits, etc. do much better if portions are periodically cut to allow new growth. They really are creatures of the "edges". So now we have large areas proclaimed "Forever Wild", but they are environmental wastelands, virtually devoid of numbers of wildlife.

I guess I was lucky enough to be born and raised while there was still the opportunity for good sport for everyone. I feel it will soon be like some sections of Europe, where only the wealthy classes have the opportunity to participate in the sport.

I also enjoy target shooting, and the clay sports as well as reloading my own ammunition. I also have participated in the Black Powder sports.

All this in addition to my fishing!

Cheers,

BobK
 

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dry casting

hi bobk and grampa, its very interesting that your problems mirror ours or vice versa! we agree edge is all important, edge means management. our 'anoraks' as we call them,[ govt nature bodies staff with 5th rate degree from 10th rate tech college called university to fulfil some govt quota,] who nearest contact to nature has been window box flowers, think let run riot will make all revert to some fantasy environment that never existed. i have just had serious section of my hunting woods designated a bat preserve. no one must enter woods except by say of said anoraks! same anoraks are involved in management at great public expense of a nature reserve from which bats have migrated to my woods, so now they want to run my woods-without compensation. crazy world. in your public hunting areas do you have reserve areas where no one ever shoots? when we can get all to stick to it it gives a clear picture of where game will make for when threatenned. it takes about 2 years for them to work it out.keep practising!
 

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Gentlemen,

Yes, we do have areas where certain species are not hunted (or fished). However, these areas usually will have some species that are still hunted. Confused??

Well, for example, Montezuma Wildlife Refuge is just a few miles down the road. In it, migratory fowl (ducks, geese and swans, etc.) may NOT be hunted, but deer can be. However, depending on populations, occasionally they allow LIMITED hunting of the migratory species in DESIGNATED blinds and on DESIGNATED days. To do this, you enter a lottery early in the morning of the hunt.

Our conservation people and biologists are GENERALLY pretty knowledgeable people, and sportsmen themselves. Most of them are Cornell or Syracuse Graduates, and these are very good schools. However, their Commissioners are generally appointed political hacks, and too many times, decisions are made on a political basis. Obviously, this leaves the "troops" grumbling.

So that's about the state of affairs here.

BobK:)
 
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