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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys,

Is the ideal line grain weight for a rod the same for a a weight forward Spey line as it is for an 'underhand' line? I think not but I would appreciate your comments.

I am using a euro sage 15' 1" #10 wt and at sometime in the past I asked Sage for the ideal or recommended grain weight for the rod. I don't recall who I spoke to at the time (its a couple of years ago now) but the answer was 650 grains (c.42 grams).

In practice I find that a Spey line, whatever the head lenght, of c.650 grains is ideal. I assumed the same weight would apply to an 'underhand' line and I acquired a Rio Scandanavian line and cut it according to their chart to 650 grains but I think the resulting line is too heavy.

From other sources and from the Rio cutting chart supplied with the line (I bought their 10/11 weight) I have an idea the line should be between 500 to 550 grains?

Any comments?

Regards

Don
 

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Spey Standards

Hi,

This might help. It is a copy of the recently published spey standards that were approved at AFFTA last year.
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Spey Standards

Currently the new spey standard has four separate categories. One for shooting heads, one for short head spey line (like the WindCutter), one for mid length spey line (MidSpey type) and one for long belly lines (GrandSpey type). The standards recommend that the lines are split into four groups and the line will be called quite simply:

1) H, for shooting heads (measured at 40 ft)
2) S, for short head spey lines (measured at 55 ft)
3) M, for mid length spey lines (measured at 65 ft)
4) L, for long belly spey lines (measured at 75 ft)

The weights are as follows.

# H S M L Increment

5 - 380 - - 40
6 250 420 460 600 50
7 300 470 510 650 60
8 360 530 570 710 70
9 430 600 640 780 80
10 510 680 720 860 90
11 600 770 810 950 100
12 700 870 910 1050 -



The proposed tolerances were +/- 30 grains.

Thus any WindCutter type line weighing 580 grains would simply be called S9. Any GrandSpey line of 700 grains would be L8 and so on.

The new standard was approved by AFFTA (American Fly Fishing Trade Association) at their annual meeting during Fly Fishing Retailer show in Denver in September 2004. The standard was intended to be a ‘working’ standard, but was approved and adopted by a majority at the meeting. The committee formed to make the initial recommendations were: Andy Murray (Hardy’s), Tim Rajeff (Airflo and Echo), Steve Rajeff (Loomis), Al Buhr (Sage and Scientific Anglers), Simon Gawesworth and Jim Vincent (Rio), Kerry Burkheimer (CF Burkheimer).
 

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Scandinavian shooting head for the 10151-4 SAGE

Hi,

On the SAGE 10151-4 we usally use (I'm going in the "metric"scale here) a 37 gram shooting head with the lengt of +/- 12,2-12,5 m.

Hope this info helps you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Ullsock,

Thanks for that, it is exactly the information I need.

Can I trouble you for more information:

(1) Can I take it that the 37 grams (570 grains) does not include the polytip?

(2) What make of line are you using?

(3) Please describe your leader set-up.

Regards

Don
 

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Lines and leaders for SAGE 10151-4

Don,

The 37 gram does not include polyleaders, its yust the weight of the sole head.

I'm using Guideline and Vision shooting heads. The Guideline is a cut back 10/11 head (I mostly use a Hoover or F/I, but NOT the one with a clear tip that chines up in water like flashabou or for springtime fishing the S1/S2). The line I like even more on this rod is the 37 gram Vision. This Vision line can be use staight out of the box, since it matches the rod perfectly at a lengt of 12.2 m. I use the F/I line from Vision

These days almost all of the scandinavian shooting heads are uses in combination with (mostly sinking, ultra fast to slow sinking/intermediate) 8 feet polyleaders. On this leader I do attach a 3 to 6 feet fluor carbon (Frogline, for Morrum and Gaula 10 kg breaking strenght).

When using intermediate polyleaders or tips on your fly line, make sure that you make them dull (pulling through dirt or grass). So the tip will not shine up in the water under influence of sunlight. An untreated tip will shine like flashabou an will scare salmon and seatrout.

I personally like flat beam running lines (50 lbs for a 10/11 line). But this is a very personal vieuw. Some like a floating 30 lbs running line with shoots a little less smooth, but feels nicer in the stripping hand.
 

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Thanks Ullsock for such a detailed reply. I expect I will now be able to match a line and leader set-up to the Sage.

It is still unusual to see an angler using the Underhand Cast on our rivers (Ireland) but things are changing. I have ordered a Sciera HMS 13' 1" 8/9 and I am looking forward to develoiping the skill. The rod is not available from stock and had to be ordered in!

Thanks again

regards

Don

P.S. Had a look at your Gaula River on the internet and it looks wonderful:
w ww.salmon-fishing.no/new_version/pages/page_18.php

w ww.worldwidefishing.com/norway/b1772/
 

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Guideline

Guideline have just put up (earlier today) an English version on their website. They're not a sponsor (maybe their Finnish Rep who comes here could suggest to them it might be a good idea?) so I can't link it, but there's a basic cutting chart for the "Power Taper" which gives newcomers to the advantages of shooting heads (like myself) somewhere to start from, plus a few hints and tips on using them (overhang, making loops etc).
Worth a look.

/* EDIT Can't hotlink but looks like I can point you in right direction to find it :-
guidelineflyfish.com/english-edition/index.html
Hope thats ok......*/
 

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Hibernicus said:
Guys,

Is the ideal line grain weight for a rod the same for a a weight forward Spey line as it is for an 'underhand' line? I think not but I would appreciate your comments.

I am using a euro sage 15' 1" #10 wt and at sometime in the past I asked Sage for the ideal or recommended grain weight for the rod. I don't recall who I spoke to at the time (its a couple of years ago now) but the answer was 650 grains (c.42 grams).

In practice I find that a Spey line, whatever the head lenght, of c.650 grains is ideal. I assumed the same weight would apply to an 'underhand' line and I acquired a Rio Scandanavian line and cut it according to their chart to 650 grains but I think the resulting line is too heavy.

From other sources and from the Rio cutting chart supplied with the line (I bought their 10/11 weight) I have an idea the line should be between 500 to 550 grains?

Any comments?

Regards

Don

Have you checked out Lohi's line calculator?
You can download it from Lohi's website. He refers to it in this string http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showpost.php?p=127555&postcount=10

I have tryed it, and it compare well with my figures for lineweight / lenght, for Sage Euro. rods for underhand casting. (Anderson casting )

Your 10151-4 is a 10 rod, and works well with a 40,4 fot , 525 grains line float or intermediate, with a 17 fot leader, 0,031" runningline (adjust leader for fly size ) (remember balance between leader and fly vs runningline )

Heavy lines will course a slow motion effect to the cast.

Remember that just the leader and fly, is to set on the water, not the linetip. ( you can easy change angle 90 degree)
 
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