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Discussion Starter #1
After taking another thread way off topic, I decided that I should start a new thread for all of us who enjoy swinging the "long-er" rod :)
So, I have extracted the "off-topic" content from that thread and placed them in to this thread, to further the discussion.

This thread is all about those of us who like to swing the "Long-er" two-hander .... our thoughts, preferences, struggles, trials and tribulations.
What's your magical combination that you have ?? Or the combination to stay away from :hihi:


Mike




I have the 12'6" 6/7 MKS and the 14' 6/7 MKS, both were the latest generation prior to Mr. Meiser introducing the MKX series.
I have noticed that both having the same designation, they are indeed different. The 12'6" 6/7 MKS is somewhat "lighter" in my opinion than the 14' 6/7 MKS. The 14ft'er really has a much larger grain tolerance than it's shorter sister. Also the taller girl is much more effective for lifting sunk lines than the shorter sister ... could be a length thing I'd imagine, but the authoritative tip is much more recognizable in the taller sibling.
I first started using Scandi style lines on both rods, usually 435gr for the 12'6" and 475gr for the 14'. I made the mistake of loading the 14' with a 525gr Scandi and was pleasantly surprised it worked quite well. I have custom cut old Guideline DDC's to work on both, which handle all my sunk line needs for these sticks.
I have since gravitated to longer lines and find the Beulah Aero Head works well on both. The 6/7 Aero Head is a perfect match for the 12'6", but the 7/8 Aero Head is much nicer on the 14' in my opinion, however I reserve these lines for mostly delicate work in presenting small wet flies. They just don't have the authority in the taper to punch through wind or deliver a larger #2 to #1/0 offering. I've stuck with Scandi heads and the Aero Head for the 12'6" MKS, but have since moved over to the Gaelforce Equalizer Spey lines for the 14' MKS, modifying them into "head" versions since I share reels between rods. I have found the 9/10 Equalizer to be a fantastic match. The old 8/9 Snowbee 1D line is also easily tamed on this rod, however I do prefer the Gaelforce Equalizer for turnover, distance and smoothness.

I will give the Gaelforce 8/9 EMT the nod for a more "Skagitty" approach since that is how I have matched it with my 14ft MKS. I find it very smooth and shoots buckets of line, even into the wind with a very authoritative turnover.

I know you have the model in between mine, but thought a little food for thought might help you as well :)


Mike
Hey Mike,

It seems that every increase in a two handed rod's length increment will also increase (improve) the rod's overall performance capabilities.

The longer (14'0" 6/7) rod will inherently have a broader grain window then will the shorter 12'6" 6/7 ... This from both the low and high ends of the GW.

In addition, the longer rod will more efficiently carry proportionately longer bellies, generally achieve greater casting distances, carry bigger pay loads and allow a far broader diversity of line systems ... All achieved with far less expended energy from the caster.

So even though the mentioned 14'0' and 12'6" MKS rods do have similar energies, they really are in essence quite different rods in overall capabilities ...:wink2:

The logical forte of the shorter rod will primarily be its performance on smaller rivers ... Especially those smaller rivers with tight banks and lot's of low overhead riparian.

And if its a concern ... The shorter rod will also be lighter in hand.

Meiz
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Hey Mike,

It seems that every increase in a two handed rod's length increment will also increase (improve) the rod's overall performance capabilities.

The longer (14'0" 6/7) rod will inherently have a broader grain window then will the shorter 12'6" 6/7 ... This from both the low and high ends of the GW.

In addition, the longer rod will more efficiently carry proportionately longer bellies, generally achieve greater casting distances, carry bigger pay loads and allow a far broader diversity of line systems ... All achieved with far less expended energy from the caster.

So even though the mentioned 14'0' and 12'6" MKS rods do have similar energies, they really are in essence quite different rods in overall capabilities ...:wink2:

The logical forte of the shorter rod will primarily be its performance on smaller rivers ... Especially those smaller rivers with tight banks and lot's of low overhead riparian.

And if its a concern ... The shorter rod will also be lighter in hand.

Meiz
Yup, we talked about this when we discussed the build of the 14' 6/7 MKS. I was sort of concerned having two rods designated the same and you assured me they were indeed two different rods ... and that they are !! Just as you said Bob :)

So tell me ... would there be the same difference between a 14ft and a 16ft ... you know where I'm going with this :hihi::hihi:
You're dealing crack here Bob .... it's been a year since I bought a new rod and the shakes are coming back ... :Eyecrazy::Eyecrazy:


Mike
 

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Mike,

There would be a bit of a difference for sure <> But not as radical as would be the 12'6" to the 14'0" ...

The 14'0" would function, and have characteristics typical of a "long rod" ... As would 15'0" or 16'0" rods.

I very much enjoy using a 16'0" rod if the river size will warrant it.

I personally will generally choose a 16'0' rod as a niche application tool.

I especially like them for:

1. Hitting a far seam with shooting heads ... Generally Scandis in either density compensated or full sink configurations.

2. Covering lots of water on dry fly skating, or wet fly, grease-line swing on big rivers

3. On those very long runs where moving fish will hold close to the bank (like on the Skeena in off-color conditions) ... The 16'0" rod will allow maximum cross-current lift mending from the dangle, allowing multiple presentations to a "player" or an interested fish ... (we call these fly followers "butt smellers")

3. (My favorite) For utilizing type 3 to type 8 full sink Classic Speys in Winter rivers on mid to large size rivers ... Nothing will un-hinge these aggressive lines better than a 16'0' rod with a lot of top end authority ... !!!

Give me a ring some time ... It'd be good to catch-up on things and talk fishing ... !!!

All the very best of the Holidays to you and your loved ones my friend.

Meiz
 

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Discussion Starter #4
(we call these fly followers "butt smellers")

Meiz
Bah-hahahahahaha !!!

Meiz, you can be the one to coin that phrase :hihi::hihi:
And here I thought I was the only one that targeted fish like this .... :roll::roll:

For all the reasons you have listed, the 16ft'ers are my favorites when I can fit them into the surroundings.
We will talk soon my friend :)


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5
For all the reasons you have listed, the 16ft'ers are my favorites when I can fit them into the surroundings.
I will also add to the list:

1. Using longer traditional belly lines - pick up, cast and swing ... feels like my "fishing" time on the river is extended.

2. On the flip-side - using extended length shooting heads and launching them into another time zone is fun ... just because you can. The short rod guys have already made three casts and your still stripping in.

3. Utilizing the classic Double Taper salmon lines is a match made in heaven. The line control with the added length rod combined with the equalized grains along the length of line allows me to swim and fish my fly like nothing else at far distances. You can tease those "butt smellers" in the middle of the run if you want to.

4. Presentation at long distances can be made stealthy for those finicky far off takers.

5. Something about wielding a long rod brings out my inner Celtic warrior - :chuckle::chuckle:


Mike
 

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Following this thread closely. For the photos and the laughs. :)


On a more serious note... I fish a Meiser 15' 6/7/8 as does one of my fishing partners. All of the feedback shared by Bob is very accurate. A longer rod is superbly versatile and I think it's even underrated for those who want to throw sink tips. Personally, I primarily fish year-round with longer, floating mid-belly lines (Deltas, Gaelforce, etc.). But, the rod will launch a multi-density Skagit (FIST, etc.) a country mile and provide very good line control. Many think a longer rod is for only longer lines. This does not have to be. I primarily fish a longer rod for versatility; whether in close, or to reach the far bank, a floater, or a sinker, it provides excellent versatility while maintaining line control. Line control is paramount.

Some think that a 15' rod would be overkill on many rivers, but the sensitivity with the right set-up can be fantastic - even on trout. For years, I fished with a 12.5' 5/6 Meiz. because I wanted to keep it sporty on the incidental trout while fishing for steelhead. Since moving to a 15' rod, I have given up very little in terms of sportiness and the feel of the rod when detecting strikes or plucks from wary fish. Even trout.

Lastly, longer rods can get an unfair reputation for being heavy. I fish an older Meiser but I know the newest version is meaningfully lighter and will buy one at some point. However, the most important part in my opinion is achieving a proper balance between rod and reel. A balanced rod, even if the reel is in excess of 14oz, does not have to feel "heavy" in the hand. I can effortlessly balance my entire set-up on a single finger when fishing. It feels quite light in hand and people who have tried it are surprised to say the least. There is nothing magical about my set-up (except it's a Meiser!), but the key is a proper reel balance. Long rod. Fish all day. No fatigue. Envy of all your friends.
 

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As soon as my bonus gets deposited, I will be commissioning my first 16'er. I'm set on a custom MKX but not sure if I should go for the 8/9 or the 9/10. Currently my weapons of choice for Gaspe Atlantics are a 13'6" CX and a 14' Beulah Onyx. On both I run either 55' or 65' Jetstreams and/or the SA Classic spey and the evolution mid-spey lines.

I'm leaning more towards the 8/9 MKX because in my head I'm thinking it will feel somewhat like what I'm used to, but perhaps I should opt for the 9/10 and graduate myself to a 9/10 75' jetstream? I generally see longer rods going way up to 10/11 or beyond, and I'm not interested in hoisting a telephone pole's weight all day long.

Bob, you'll be hearing from me as soon as accounting gets their act together.
 

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I have a fellow that's offering to trade me a Sage Euro 10151-4 post "Brownie". While researching all I found was confusion. Apparently there was a version of this rod that was prone to break but I can't find out which version it was. "Brownie" "Greenie" "Euro" "Traditional"??? Does anyone have an answer on these rods and maybe a opinion on today's value?

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Following this thread closely. For the photos and the laughs. :)


On a more serious note... I fish a Meiser 15' 6/7/8 as does one of my fishing partners. All of the feedback shared by Bob is very accurate. A longer rod is superbly versatile and I think it's even underrated for those who want to throw sink tips. Personally, I primarily fish year-round with longer, floating mid-belly lines (Deltas, Gaelforce, etc.). But, the rod will launch a multi-density Skagit (FIST, etc.) a country mile and provide very good line control. Many think a longer rod is for longer lines. This does not have to be. I primarily fish a longer rod for versatility -- in close, or reach the far bank, and line control. Line control is paramount.

Some think that a 15' rod would be overkill on many rivers, but the sensitivity with the right set-up can be fantastic - even on trout. For years, I fished with a 12.5' 5/6 Meiz. because I wanted to keep it sporty on the incidental trout while fishing for steelhead. Since moving to a 15' rod, I have given up very little in terms of sportiness and the feel of the rod when detecting strikes or plucks from wary fish. Even trout.

Lastly, longer rods can get an unfair reputation for being heavy. I fish an older Meiser but I know the newest version is meaningfully lighter and will buy one at some point. However, the most important part in my opinion is achieving a proper balance between rod and reel. A balanced rod, even is the reel is in excess of 14oz, does not have to feel "heavy" in the hand. I can effortlessly balance my entire set-up on a single finger when fishing. It feels quite light in hand and people who have tried it are surprised to say the least. There is nothing magical about my set-up (except it's a Meiser!), but the key is a proper reel balance. Long rod. Fish all day. No fatigue. Envy of all your friends.
I agree with all of your points that you have listed :)

Personally, I prefer to bring the longest rod I can to the river on each outing. Sometimes that means bringing a 14' rod instead of a 12'6" or 13'. Why ?? For me, it's all about line control. As Read1t48 has already pointed out, today's long rods are light in hand and when balanced with a proper reel, there is no added fatigue in any way. The added foot or so of rod means that much more control and line pick up from the water, which is a bonus for me. If making 60ft to 70ft casts all day, I find it easier and with less effort using a 14' than a 12'6" rod. My accuracy is also increased. Not that accuracy is always needed, but on every outing I find that I have a few situations where accuracy is required and in some cases was the factor in success of a hook up.


Mike
 

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I have a fellow that's offering to trade me a Sage Euro 10151-4 post "Brownie". While researching all I found was confusion. Apparently there was a version of this rod that was prone to break but I can't find out which version it was. "Brownie" "Greenie" "Euro" "Traditional"??? Does anyone have an answer on these rods and maybe a opinion on today's value?

Dan
The brownie was the one that was prone to break but also the sweetest of the bunch and arguably the finest real full flex Spey rod ever made by sage :surprise:
 

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Me personally, I hate long rods. Only have four 16’ and a couple of 15s. Can’t ever imagine having more than 1-2 more of each 🤣

I have to say that I enjoy fishing my long rods much more than the shorter versions. I think they challenge me and keep me focused. With 13’ range rods and shorter lines, the casting is automatic and unless I carelessly let the shooting line slip before I should, very cast is identical. With the long rods and long lines, I need to be much more on top of my game and still, every now and then, I go through a 10-20 minute phase where apparently I’ve forgotten how to cast. These used to annoy me but now it is just a challenge to slow down and get back into rhythm.

I do use my long rods primarily for long lines - usually floaters. I do on occasion, either for a change of pace or because of freezing temps and wanting to minimize stripping, fish long rods with tips.

I agree with the poster above that the 15’ 6/7/8 Meiser is a lot of fun with shorter lines. I fish mine on occasion with a WA55 and 15’ tips and it will effortlessly through into the next time zone.

I have long Meiser’s in all three series: HC, S and MKS/X. (I have yet to get a CX) All are great but as my style has evolved, I find myself preferring the MKX series. My 6/7/8 HC was my first long Meiser and it is still a joy to cast but has been replaced in heavy rotation by the 16’ 7 S. Incredibly light rod and as long as you remember your bottom hand, throws darts. I find myself lusting for a 16’ 7/8 MKX though to match my 9/10. I’ve talked with Bob about him needing to develop one in that weight. Also very light in hand and noticeably less tip heavy than the MKS, the MKX rods are oh so smooth. Or as Bob would say, powerful with soul.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Me personally, I hate long rods. Only have four 16’ and a couple of 15s. Can’t ever imagine having more than 1-2 more of each 🤣
I nearly choked when I read that first sentence ... then it took a few seconds to have the second sentence register in my brain.
A few thoughts crossed my mind during these seconds of deliberation ... one was how much should I offer you for your sticks and two ... how was I going to explain this to my wife :hihi::hihi:


Mike
 

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I have a fellow that's offering to trade me a Sage Euro 10151-4 post "Brownie". While researching all I found was confusion. Apparently there was a version of this rod that was prone to break but I can't find out which version it was. "Brownie" "Greenie" "Euro" "Traditional"??? Does anyone have an answer on these rods and maybe a opinion on today's value?

Dan
Dan,

Sage GIII and/ or GFL "Traditonal" moderate-fast action series are the "brownies." There was also a fast action "European" models within GIII/GFL series that have brown blanks. Those blanks display a number 1, i.e, 10151, 9141, 7141 to differentiate them from the slower regressive Traditional series.

My understanding is that they are the first spey rods from Sage and where prone to problems. Of the Traditional series for example the the threads on the reel-seat with wood insert is prone to slipping or stripping outright. The 7136 has a fairly light tip too. I broke one sliding the rod from the tube, or breaking while casting according to others. Apparently some models in the European series were prone to breaking at the third and/or the butt sections. Its a crap shoot at any rate. My guess: Looking at $250 to $300.

It's not just the brown color but also for the sweet regressive flex pattern of the moderate-fast models in the Traditional series that the "brownies" are know for.
 

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Currently have two 15fters, a 15ft 6ins, two 16fter's with a 3rd on the way and a 17fter. Only last year did I sell my 18fter, as the 17 would eclipse it in every single way.
I'd give the following guidance: never fish a 14fter when a 15fter will do, never fish a 15fter when a 16fter will do and never fish a 16fter when a 17fter will do.
My pal Tyke-also on here- had the 20ft Walker.Having experienced that, I'd honestly say-stick to 18fter's!.Both the 18ft Powerlite and the 18ft Norway are nice rods too, know a few that swing a flee on the Tay with those!.
I'm being serious here now, the 17ft LPXe, a Triple D head and a 5ft poly finds a 30m running line isn't quite long enough!.I've 50m of 40lb Amnesia on my big Marquis reels for that rod!
Harkan Norling was once kind enough to pass on to me some 12/13 competition lines of 16m length by Guideline.Jeez, do they go!.
Small rods?, they're for small boys, aren't they?.
Yorkie.
 

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I'd give the following guidance: never fish a 14fter when a 15fter will do, never fish a 15fter when a 16fter will do and never fish a 16fter when a 17fter will do.

Small rods?, they're for small boys, aren't they?.
Yorkie.
Fantastic! I should get that tatoo'd somewhere. My go to is always as long as I have and can use on a given stretch of water. Thankfully my river has plenty of room to sling a lot of line.

Dan
 
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