[FKrow]

We have five Sage "Death Star" rods in our group. They were purchased at different times, very eary (mine) and one at the very end of the production run.

All cast virtually identical. One had problems with a ferrule fit up and was returned with two new sections,,,, no change in action or casting "feel".

I seriously doubt that Sage is changing graphite material or tapers for repairs ,,,, they usually have a large inventory of spare rod sections in stock for repairs and do not custom roll individual replacement parts.

Graphite rods do change with heavy usage,,, they will get softer over time..... new sections may feel stiffer vs. older well broken in sections. This could explain some of the observations with returned rods changing in action or feel.

Regards,
FK
Spey Casting North East

 

[FKrow]

I have CCS measured many rods and seen and compared other results and sometimes there are significant differences inside same model and line weight. Also blank spin might be done differently and it has slight influence to stiffness. Perhaps Sage later made TCX cracking ferrules thicker which increase weight?

Esa

Esa,

This was not a cracking ferrule issue,,, it was a loose ferrule fit up, perhaps owner induced or was not fitted properly at factory. The ferrule made a slight clicking noise when heavily flexed without any line. In comparing the very early to late production rods,,,, we found no differences in action or ferrule thickness.

Blank Spin,,,, if you are referring to the graphite flag and mandrel assembly, this is a very controlled process with all major rod manufacturers.

Rod to rod variation,,,,,, perhaps with rod blanks made in Asia this may be a problem,,,, they use a separate operation to grind the outside diameter of blanks to fit up ferrules, with the high end builders, the rod section that does not fit properly goes into the scrap bin and are destroyed.

The CCS is only a static deflection measurement of the tip section,,,,, it has very little, if any, relationship to the action of a rod when casting under load,,,, especially with two hand rods.

Regards,
FK
Spey Casting North East

 

[FKrow]

xgolfman,

Your B&W rods are made in the UK,,,, rather inconsistent in graphite expoxy prepreg or mandrel/flag layup to experience the great variations you observed.

Rather common story with rods made in Asia,,, they make a run of perhaps 50-80 blanks for one specific rod. Then a new order is placed and the graphite epoxy prepreg is different or mandrels change or also very common,,,, a new subcontractor company is given the order,,, rods are not even close to the previous lot. They have the same label and color/graphics however, the action is not consistent.

One additional potential problem with rod blanks from Asia,,, the graphite epoxy prepreg is sensitive to temp and humidity,,,, variations will change the structural strength of the finished product.

Regards,
FK

 

[FKrow]

Is loose ferrule fit/ferrule cracking not one in the same as one leads to the other?

BB~

Not at all,,, the slight clicking sound is loose fit in one specific area,,, the male section is moving in the fit up and making the noise,,, this does not necessarily lead to the female section cracking.

In addition, the cracking of the epoxy on the threat wraps does not always indicate the graphite structure of the rod blank is cracked. We have a friend who uses a very heavy fast downward stroke to a quick stop (almost horizontal). Most of his ferrules have cracked epoxy but structurally are holding up fine. When the rod blank is flexed, the round shape goes oval with the sides bulging outward,,, this sometime causes enough distortion to crack the epoxy finish.

Regards,
FK

 

[FKrow]

CCS is static but very accurate tool to measure rod power and action when also the Moment of Inertia is measured. More sensitive than any caster!

For instance the rod spine effect to stiffness can be measured. Also the effect of snakes. MOI changes significantly when steel snakes are replaced with titanium alloy single leg guides. Skilled caster can notice them but measuring is accurate and easy.

Esa

Rod power,,, yes.
Action,,, well for where the bending occurs, mainly in the upper 1/3,,, somewhat.
It tells us nothing about recovery speed and counter bending of the material when actually casting the rod. Test this,,, take a older IM6 rod and a new modern graphite rod with the same static deflection curve,,, will they cast and feel the same? According to CCS they should be identical.


"•Moment of Inertia of a body depends on the distribution of mass in a body with respect to the axis of rotation"
Where do we define the axis of rotation,,, at the casters hands,,,, in the center of the rod blank? How does bending the rod to the 1/3 blank length define MOI? The fly line also significantly changes the MOI,,, this is totally discounted in CCS tables.

With a modern fly rod the spine is a non issue,,,, it is very difficult to determine a significant spine with present rod construction.

Esa, I always enjoy your contributions and discussions.

Regards,
FK

 

[FKrow]

BB,

The graphite epoxy prepreg is not stored outside the shack,,, it is kept in the shack in freezers until needed for the individual days production run.

If the flags are cut in batches and temp rises too quickly prior to the clave operation,,,, the mechanical properties will change.

Not all rod blanks made in Asia are carelessly manuf. with little quality control. I have 8-10 spey rods from four different companies with manuf. in China/Korea that are good casting rods with no problems over the past 5-6 years.
They do not compare to the performance of USA made rods.
Ferrules that require taping.
Crap cork quality.
"Hit a wall" when pushed for distance,,, below optimum casting performance.

Regards,
FK

 

[FKrow]

I apologize for offending the fans of rods with blanks made in China/Korea.

My observations of "hitting a wall" are from the rods I have owned in the past and presently own. These are rods in the $300-$450 range marketed at the average consumer. Does the average FF need to cast max distance,,,, certainly not.

Not all Asian rods,,, hit a wall,,,,, especially not the custom made competition blanks designed for the distance contests. I doubt anyone would use one of these for fishing all day.

The Sage 7126 TCX is not my all time favorite fishing rod,,,, it is a great performing TH rod that demands you be on your game to feel comfortable,,,, narrow grain window compared to most popular rods. Formula 1 racing car vs. your favorite pick-up truck.

Regards,
FK

 

[FKrow]

Tough crowd,,,, my personal observations are upsetting to many on this board. I will refrain from any future postings on rods.

Regards,
FK