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Damn fish ladder
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Discussion Starter #1
I thought I'd start a new thread as some might be interested.

I just received a Daiwa WF98 Whisker Fly 18' 10-12 salmon rod from a source of Hammer's. $250 plus $60 shipping. No tube. rod brand new.

I also purchase a bunch of lines from a kind gentleman on the list. Accellerator 10-11, TT 10-11, Cortland Spey DT 11-12.

Used an Orvis Battenkill LA VI and an orvis heavy graided leader with 4' bimini tippet. Total leader length 12'.

Cosmetics- About what i would expect for $250. The wraps are tipped, which is nice. Strippers are set low as in most English rods I've seen/used... not so low as to impede shooting, though. Cork is A grade (about four steps down from the best), but I MUCH prefer cheaper cork for spey grips as the really good stuff is quite too smooth. Nice butt cap.

Weight??? Not too bad. I'm a big guy 6'4 260, but I still think this thing is not too bad. I'll weigh it when i have a chance on my reloading scale. As with all longer rods, it really begs for a much heavier reel than I have. BUT with a good deal of line out, something clicks and the tip heaviness seems to become an asset. can't explain it...perhaps someone else can.

Length-- I like big. This stick is big. The butt diameter has got to be over an inch. The tip is the same diameter as the butt of my Sage 0 weight...almost!

WALL THICKNESS--- Seems a tad light to me, but I have nothing to go on for a rod this big. I worry about durability...any ideas here?

No casting review as I haven't tried all of the lines yet, but I was able to get most of the accellerator. Of course, I'm casting from an abondoned pier in Brooklyn about 6 feet off the water, so my D loops are a bit HUGE and UNREALISTIC FOR THE NORMAL FISHING SITUATION.

The fact that I am surrounded by ruined chunks of metal and rebar and lots of hard, unyielding concrete, my casting options are limited to weird side-arm snake rolls and weird side-arm single speys. I was not able to overhead cast the whole accellerator head without the cast dumping on the backcast, but, then, I'm not sure I should be able to. with a shooting head, I can imagine this rod to be very deadly, however.

Action somewhere between my 15' B+W Hexagraph Bruce (I think it's a bruce) and my JP Ross 15' built on an east Branch blank (very nice rod, but EB is kaput).

I'm not sure I was really able to get it beyond tip loading with that accellerator and the above situation.

I'm gonna try the DT in a place I can wade and have more casting room.

This rod's sections are the same length as an Orvis steelhead rod I have, so the two will always travel together. I look forward to pike, muskie, salmonids, and various saltwater species on this rod.

Now I am hoping for a very stiff scandanavian action rod in the 18' range...any thoughts?

brooklynangler (moving to Pittsburgh PA in a week, so I'll be justanothersteelcitydude in a week)
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
TAPE!!!

Let me add that I did not tape or wax my ferrules on my test casting spree today and instead stopped casing every few minutes to retighten the ferrule (maybe 1mm or 2mm movement)

Will NEVER AGAIN cast this rod without beeswax and tape.

brooklyn
 

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just say no to bait
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115 Posts
something clicks and the tip heaviness seems to become an asset. can't explain it...perhaps someone else can.

Derek Brown talked about the inertial mass of the rod in movement to carry the cast. This is something I think is overlooked in older rod designs. Alot of newer rods completely lack this aspect and totally rely on quick twitch casting movements to load the rod fully. Just an opinion.

N I
 

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yeah!,,baby,,,,

heck,you should love the peice,as big a guy as you are,the one thing about the rod is the unbelievable amount of weight it'll toss,try looping some leadcore on the end of the DT,,as a leader butt,,,or just tie it on,,to see,,,i could critique a couple things about the rod but ;it's nice to have a rod with that kind of power,then you have something to compare to,,most other rods are just `toys' for `play' or to practice `the art of speycasting' the big D just launches it out there,i'm putting my comets right on the bottum,,bouncing them down thru deep fast channels,,,heavy stuff,for heavy fish,,or walking down the middle of runs,covering both sides,unbeleivable line control,,,what's your target?:hehe:
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Re inertial mass

As a cane rod maker, I can comment on this--- YYEEESSSSS!!! This is the reason why cane rods cast so easily...especially the 6wt and above rods. and the reason why hollow/graphite rods just can't get it in terms of casting efficiency (up to a point) and delicacy.

I'll go one better and say that I can cast farther with my 8wt Orvis cane rod at 5 1/8 oz than my ultra-stiff scott STS 9 wt.

Lighter is not always better. Those old greenheart beasts relied upon their mass and the inertia created by swinging them to lift and move those old lines.

Stiff rods sacrifice everything other tangible aspect of FISHING just to get an extra 15% in cast length. I have VERY< VERY rarely been in a situation where that extra 15% is worth all of the downsides (lack of delicacy, lack of mending ability, short casting stroke, etc)

Now a rod like the CND atlantis definitely has it's place IMHO, but it is in a pretty unique position. Still gonna get one someday.


brooklynangler
 

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brooklynangler,

Cool on the 18' rod, I had a pair of Bruce and Walker 18' Experts that I fished for years. I no longer fish them as they are both now broken. The culprit was blank twist and loosening of the ferrule. I mega-taped always, but the torque (with the rod inertia) was just too much for the thin walled blanks. I did love those rods though... I too am a big guy, but maybe that is why I have to wear a brace to cast my 13'8" rod today :whoa: .

Never-the-less, the big rods are cool. I used a 10/11 Accellerator on the B&W, I think you will like it - if you add 20-30' of level belly just behind the hinge! Seriously, the problem I had with the beast was not enough belly in the line. Eventually I added 15' of the level taper from a #10 DT and it cast much better. Being the scientific type I thought "gee maybe I'll try another 15' " and lo and behold it cast even better! I eventually settled on a custom made Derek Brown Speydriver as my line of choice.

You will need a longer belly line, rather than custom building one I suggest getting a Grandspey or an XLT for the 18' beastie.
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
which long belly?

Thanks a bunch Kush.

So am i just looking at a rod that is destined for an early death? anything I can do to prevent said early death?

I was thinking about wrapping and epoxying on some kind of "stays" on the male and female parts of the ferrules to allow me to tie-wrap or cinch the ferrules together...anyone have ideas about this.

I was thinking something like a thick-wire hookkeeper at three locations around the blank at both the male and female side. Then, just use small tie-wraps to hold the thing in place and seated. Wouldn't add any appreciable weight and might be a boon...

Which long belly? The biggest of the XLT's or Grandspeys?

Brooklynangler
 

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Brooklynangler,

Ouch! as I read over this post I looked at my avatar - it hurts - that fish was the last one I caught on that rod... 2 hours later - BAM :mad:

I'm not saying the Diawa will go the way my B&Ws did, it may not. If I recall the Diawa will have spigot ferrules, which in my opinion are superior to the sleeve over - so that may help.

As for preventing a blow-up - I don't know what you can do - you are the rod builder. The thin walls of my B&Ws always looked fragile - and they were. However, I think I would focus on wax and tape with religious checking - it is supposed to last!

Concerning the Grandspey and XLT, I don't think I would put the 10/11 of either of them on the rod. My B&W very much liked an extended long belly with similar characteristics to the 9/10 XLT, which would be my first choice for this rod. I would also suggest the 9/10 with the Grandspey.
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Tough Spigots

Yeah- Those spigots look pretty tough- they have cork inserts as well, which always gives me confidence.

Tape and wax it will be, though I'm going to do the hookkeeper thing with my Hexagraph as the ferrules are at their last 25%.

I'll post a picture and plans when i do.

Thanks all!!!

brooklyn
 

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i have confidence in mine

and as for the ferrules,,,they always seem to stick on me,,,as a matter of fact;the first time i swung the rod in the pasture they stuck,on the tip-second section,,,i don't REALLY like the handle assembly,,and the snakes are just,`too small',,?,,they look like english snakes,,,out of 5 daiwa's,,this is the only rod with snakes,,and,,i prefer rings,,,,due to the other 4,,,,but,i purchased an XLT 10-11,,,,under 70 ft,it sucks,,compared to a DT,,and withalmost twenty ft of rod/arm length,,,,isn't there some formula,,someone said,,about three times the length of the rod,,,,can't remember who,or what was said,,,but ,i use two setup's,,one's a DT11,looped on both ends,add leadcore,floating tips,or tips made from old wetcell wt fwd,,,,or any combination!!!,another is a chopped DT 12,forgot the length,,,,looped on both ends,for ;;same as above,,then i can add a comet,,,or any weighted pattern on the leader by pinching the leader/thru the eye of the hook,,/over the tail//then the nots in the hand tied leader keep the ```pattern' from sliding down the leader,easy to ADJUST!,,,with this setup,,i use the leader only for the `anchor',,if i'm wading,,way out,,i'll simply do an overhead,,`shoot the moon !",i call it,,stop high,,more like a quarter to 12:00 oclock than eleven,,then there's the `depth charge ' heads i made,,but,,those are for the atlantis style of casting,,,hey sun's out,!,,,better take `the dragon' out for a walk,,,,i can here him grumbling,,rattling around in the suburban,,he wants to ROCK,!!,and was created to do just that,,i'm chasing early spring chinook,,,or are they chasing me:confused: :hehe: :whoa: :tsk_tsk:
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Surgery

I very well might surgerize the rod and put REC ReCoil spinning guides on this rod. Had those spec'd on my JP Ross and they shoot line unlike anything else.

But first, I gotta catch a fish on it and test it for many more months!!!

I'l throw my hat into the ring for those Fuji graphite reel seats- they are WAY better in almost every respect to the metal and wood antiquities still being put on rods. Lighter, stronger, no corrosion, no sticking, enough stiction to keep the reel in place, no flash.

I'd prefer those seats on all my rods but the cane ones.

brooklynangler
 

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yes sad isn't it

the reelseat thing,,the `cross river' has one that's,,,OD green!,,but ,of course;works perfectly,,,,fish don't seem to mind either,,what about folding guides,,huge,,,,,shooters,,,,,!,,,,,bye,,,,,,,suburban's rocking,,HE wants out!!!,,gotta go!!:hehe:
 

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Damn fish ladder
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Discussion Starter #13
Guides

Yeah- I'm talking about those springy REC deals. Made from some kind of titanium "memory metal." The epoxy'll craze and crack off before the guide will break. I think you need to put a REALLY sharp bend in them to get them to break... or maybe they don't break EVER!!! Ever!!!! Mwahahahahahahahahah.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Based on my experience with the 10/11 and 9/10 GrandSpey lines on a T&T 1611, I'd recommend the 9/10 GrandSpey for you big Daiwa. The T&t 1611 is a stiff, powerful, fast recovery rod of 16' (granted a very different action than your big Daiwa) and it is overloaded with the 10/11 GrandSpey; but it comes alive with the 9/10 GrandSpey. Since your Daiwa is rated for the same line wts as my T&T, I would expect you to find the same lines working on your rod.

I'm one of those folks who likes a stiff, powerful, fast recovery rod, whether single-hand or 2-hand. I like the shorter stroke, the lack of swing weight (or inertial mass, which plays hell on your wrists with long hours spent casting), and the rod not taking much time to recover after the cast is released compared to the much softer, slower recovering, powerful rods like your Daiwa.

I do disagree with your assertion that one can't make a delicate cast with a stiff, fast recovery graphite rod. All it takes it using the right wt rod, the right leader, and not overpowering the cast to make a delicate cast and presentation with the stiffer rod. Cane is nice; but it doesn't have a monopoly on delicate or easy casting.

Some folks like stiff or stiffer rods with fast recovery and some like soft rods with slow recovery. Neither type of rod is better than the other, they are only different.
 

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Damn fish ladder
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Discussion Starter #15
Agreed

Thanks for the reccomendation


Agreed--- use what you like. For me, I feel more beat-up with stiff rods than softer rods.



While cane certainly has no monopoly on ANYTHING, it is reasonably good at enough things to still be a good way to cast a line in many different fashions, including delicately. I DO think it and softer-actioned rods with more heft are much easier to cast well (not just delicate).

Delicacy is *truly* in the skill of the caster and his skill at assembling a balanced line/leader system-

what did gierach say, "if you are spooking the fish with a LOOP Greyline, a Hardy Wye probably isn't the answer, a better cast and a longer leader probably is."

BTW- My fav trout rod is Fiberglass, from Fenwick, and a re-labeled ultra-light spinning rod and was $75--- and I can build any taper in cane that I want :)
 

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o-k that's it!

why can't i just buy what i want,,length,power,action,color,,i just don't see why i can't have what i want,,but,,then again after dealing with some of the flyshops here,,,,my money isn't any good there either,,,they just keep telling me what i need!!???,,my only regret about the big D is----- drumroll,,,,;i should have bought all four the guy had',,yes ,,go ahead and quote me,,,,i've been muttering it under my breath for a couple weeks know,,but i have two,,and the CF 98,,is really a sweet rollcasting piece,,,light,,a nine wt...,,did i say light,,heck,,were is that rod???;)
 

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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Here-here

I'm doing opposite foot forward, but I am no champion spey caster and have not even really had time to properly test the rod.

brooklynangler
 

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it's no dif.,,seems i'll take a halfstep foward on an overhead,,the double haul that i mentioned works better when you're standing paralell to the current,,meaning,,,fastwater;lot's of drag on your body,,,i thought the piece would unlock some serious extra distance,,and it's there,,somwhere,,,,but,,it's the line control,,and the weight i can utilize,,i've had some wunderful afternoons here lateley,,rainy,but warm,,almost no one around,,,that's the wunderful part,,,i'm walking downriver,,,,stripping line out 150 ft.,,,,letting my offerings swing in the current,around,down seams,,,,holding lies of fish `on the move' like back bouncing bait,only,covering more water,,eventually the chinook WILL be in great enough numbers,,,,,i'll punch one in the nose,,,,then we'll fight about it,,,,the other model,,i offerred it for sale when i purchased this rod,,,was sold as`a light line rod for low waters and delicate presentation' and,,,i do throw 12-14 size flies,in the film,,that's the `other' fishery,,,here now,,the 7-14 inch smolts,,some downrunner steel,searun cutts,,in with the spring kings,,the riffles are where `that action's at',,the swallows,working the hatches give it away,,,but,don't tell anyone:hehe:
 

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redshed

call the man up,,order some weinbrenner `corks',,,actually they're the `ultimate wading shoe by G Borger',,,,i'll never go back to plain felt,,best money i' ever spent,,,,of course the daiwa's arent bad,,,oh,don't forget the bailey waders,,convenient place for a flask,the flask helps with stabilization of the forward delivery,,,:tsk_tsk:;)
 
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