[brooklynangler]

Gents--

I just enjoyed a wonderful day with my tfo 1212 on the potomac river. The current was strong, the wind nil.

Here is the line setup I used and liked very much

Rio 9/10 650gr skagit line
12' of front taper of 12wt DT as head

airflo 5' super fast sink polyleader

various lengths 20lb ande mono leader---

Ok, so this requires almost no effort, right? Cast after cast of the head and a 40' shoot with little strain on the back and shoulders. That TFO rod has a MONSTER butt section. Oonce you get down there, it is a whole new world of fun. I'm sorry I haven't tried short belly lines much before this. My first spey line was an 80' head TT 10wt and it's been long belly only ever since.

My skagit casting is pretty poor, but using a slight touch and go I was able to get a better loop shape. I was standing a few feet off the water most of the time so I'm sure that messed with the load on the rod. I was amazed that just letting the line sag behind the rod, then flipping it forward cast the head and 20' w/o fail.

I was not able to get the distances that I can with long belly lines AND the stripping is a b^tch...but for stripers when fishing with 3-5 giant flatwings, this frigging rocks for fishing the rocks and drifting.

SO...the kicker of kickers was that this same setup was INCREDIBLE for overhead. I kid you spey fools not that I was able to shoot the whole deal out to my backing with one back cast (LOTS of drift) and a hard front stop with a quick downward drift. Casts didn't dump like the airflo 35' heads + running line that I had been using on the 1212 and atlantic 1111.

I imagine all those times on Long Island where I was blown out on my one day that month to fish...and I wish I had had this setup. Spey cast into the rips, overhead into the horizon.

I look forward to trying this setup with my new Snowbee 15' as well as my old a$$ Hexagraph...I think it might really like the load...

Such a pleasure to fish with tackle that follows your will!

Love--

Your Brooklynangler

 

[Grampa Spey]

SSShhh! Sean gets upset when we use Skagit Lines to Overhand Cast!

"SO...the kicker of kickers was that this same setup was INCREDIBLE for overhead. I kid you spey fools not that I was able to shoot the whole deal out to my backing with one back cast (LOTS of drift) and a hard front stop with a quick downward drift. Casts didn't dump like the airflo 35' heads + running line that I had been using on the 1212 and atlantic 1111."

Last year, even while recovering from my shoulder injuries, I discovered that my 3 Skagits, 450, 550 and 650 were incredible with Overhead Casts from my Sage 5120 to my TCR 9129-4 with 90 to 100' casts with the Rio 12' Type 8 Sinking Leader and a couple of feet of tippet or a floating tip with a 15' leader with size 4 flies to a big Crease Fly.

3 minutes from my house and a five minute walk to my local river, there were a couple of holes 90' to 100' from a casting spot. Big Stripers from May to January lurked in these holes and so did some big Carp. The problem is there is so much river craft traffic, the fish just lay down after a canoe, kayak or fishing boat goes past for about 10-15 minutes. Even anchoring 80' from these holes caused them to do the bottom retreat. If another boat didn't come by about 15 minutes later, they would start to roam and feed again. The problem was the timing. Seldom do we have 15 minutes w/o some water craft going by.

I found out that my TCR 9129-4 with the Rio 650 Skagit line could be overheaded with a good size fly 90+' from the one spot where some minimal wading could be done. So I would just stand in the water and wait until 10-15 minutes went by or when I saw "Nervous Water" over and around the holes. I surprised some big Stripers and the one Carp that got into my backing. My problem is this area has a lot of snags on the river bottom and dead trees up or downstream, and there was no way to run along the shore to chase the fish. So I had to fish with tippets no bigger than 8 to 10# to snap the fish off if it started to endanger my line. The funniest fish was a very bright 2 year Steelhead which hit a Crease Fly. :Eyecrazy: After a quick run towing the 650 Skagit and a floating tip, he was tired and came in quickly to be safely released.

Now after our massive floods, that bank is no longer there.

 

[Jamey McLeod]

BA,

Are you casting over head with the set up you mentioned above, or some sort of underhand spey deal? I am tossing around the idea of picking up this rod and a set of Rio max heads. Only problem is the max is 500grains. I plan on doing over head casts, and want a multi tip line.

 

[sean]

Well Grandpa if you would read some of my recent posts you would see me talking about using skagit heads for overhead with pictures. I just do not post about my skagit systems as much as you take care of it for me:razz:


Skagit heads are great overhead but the grains need to be reduced for best performance. You loose casting perfromance having to pull that big fat taper too far back into the guides. Hence on a rod I would normally use a 550 for skagit casting I would use a 450 for overhead. The 450 will also enable touch and go spey casting which is of high importance when fishing the surf in my area for stripers. Sustained load casting will get you nowhere quickly so I use the lighter skagits in scando head weights and they are great overhead. The ones I have are customer full floating lines I bought from Bob Pauli and they are IMHO better overhead floating lines than the outbound floaters.

-sean

 

[Grampa Spey]

Sean, a couple of quesions?

"Hence on a rod I would normally use a 550 for skagit casting I would use a 450 for overhead. The 450 will also enable touch and go casting would is of high inportance when fishing the surf in my area for stripers."

Absolutely, no sustained loads with the overhead casts in the surf or even in a river with any Skagit line.

"The ones I have are customer full floating lines I bought from Bob Pauli and they are IMHO better overhead floating lines than the outbound floaters."

You bought those lines very quickly :tsk_tsk: .

What Floating Skagit line would you recommend for the Sage TCR 9129-4, and this isn't a trick question? This would be for touch and go Overhead casting with some good size floating and sinking Striper flies.

Thanks for the tweaking and responses.

Dave

 

[brooklynangler]

TFO 1212 in particular

I certainly agree with Sean that most rods would require a lesser weight head for overhead. However, the TFO is a real pool cue in the butt and does really well with 750+ grains for overhead. This kind of weight requires a differnt casting stroke than overheading the usual 450-550, but the distances and EASE are amazing.

I think the rod designer even mentioned that wf14 and wf15 lines work well on it. I don't doubt it.

I'd love to try Meiser's 1313 with a 750 Skagit + head.

Aw, he11, while we're at it, might as well just rig up a Grandspey 10/11 to a surfcasting rod and launch away:chuckle:

 

[brooklynangler]

Jamey...

Yes, this is overhead. The skagit setup IS a multi-tip system. You add the tip of your choice. I was just using a floater. You could use 15' of T-14. Heck, you could just tie a lobster on the end of the 650 rio skagit.

Don't forget about getting rio outbounds and turning them into shooting heads. This is an option, too.

 

[sean]

I would think you could get away with a skagit 550 with a 150 grain flaoting head that would allow you to overhead and do single speys and snake rolls no problem. I have not cast the 9129-4 for awhile and am considering picking one up for the surf. Have a meiser coming though that sounds like it may be the one. We will see.....

-sean

 

[brooklynangler]

You definitely need some more rods sean. I'm saddened that you don't already have those two. :Eyecrazy:

There might be a few more square or linear meters of carbon fiber cloth that are not "bespoken" to you and I would like to find them. :chuckle:

 

[pcknshvl]

Shooting Head Length

Jamey,

I've heard it said--and experienced it myself--that shooting heads less than 37 - 38 ft. tend to run out of room and dump before the ca

 

[sean]

Yeah but you can put a 750 skagit on the rod with 10' of t14 and it will spey cast it just fine just not overhead or the rod would be toast.

hmmmm....why does one way of casting allow more grains than another type? wierd indeed there must be something more to it....

-sean

 

[pcknshvl]

Shooting Head Length

My previous post didn't quite make it...

But the gist is, 30' heads are too short for two-handed overhead casting. Windcutters with Tip 2 removed, or the new Outbound heads work well, as do various Scandinavian heads. You can mess around with these and come up with a tips system of various weights, lengths, and densities for nearly all condtions and casting styles.

Tom

 

[sean]

Has usual arguing with you is like talking to a brick but 590 is a light skagit setup. You can cast lighter tuned skagit setups ala ed ward style and it works OK. Not as well if you go lighter but it would work but be highly loaded. Even Ed himself in posts and reccomended people go much lighter if they want to do overhead.

Now read this:

http://speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=19604

No way on the sage 9141 will you be able to safely overhead a 650 skagit with a 500 grain big boy on it. Just aint happening. But it can be skagit cast. I had my snowbee out last week with a 650 skagit and a 400 grain big boy. It casts swell skagit style but overhead just was not happening. I tried it thinking of you.

Dunno, this guy does run his own spey site...maybe he knows a thing or two...or maybe not.

-sean

 

[Jamey McLeod]

Yes, this is overhead. The skagit setup IS a multi-tip system. You add the tip of your choice. I was just using a floater. You could use 15' of T-14. Heck, you could just tie a lobster on the end of the 650 rio skagit.

Don't forget about getting rio outbounds and turning them into shooting heads. This is an option, too.

With 15ft of T14 you would be pushing 800 grains overhead, seems a bit much, but I have never had my hands on that rod. I am looking for over head 2 handed casting with 30ft heads looped to a running line.

 

[brooklynangler]

Jamey--

You really might be better served going to a longer head. A 30' head will dump quite frustratingly. Presentation control becomes difficult beyond a 40' shoot, IMHO, with shorter heads.

What is the application?

 

[Jamey McLeod]

What is the application?

Tarpon and Permit in the keys

 

[Guest]

I use a test line which is a SA T40, which is 625gns and 54 feet long. The TFO 12x12 will handle this and gets 120 feet easy as pie. I also use a Cortland 444 15# 550gn 30 foot head on it, but it also handles other head lengths and weights. Rather gutsy rod. Maxg