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Damn fish ladder
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Took my CND 1111 and TFO 1212 to the park today with these lines:

Airflo 12wt 35' INT head w/ Bionic Braid shooting line
Airflo DI3 35' head with 50lb slick shooter

The 12wt heads seem light for the 1212. Still, it was an effortless matter to shoot 60-70' of line. I mean, SO little effort required.

This rod feels slightly heavier, but not in a bad way...feels like there might be more reserve that the Atlantis. To be fair, the Atlantis is supposed to be an 11wt rod. However, the TFO feels like it could take some SERIOUSLY heavy heads or lines.

The TFO has a very solid, deliberate action whereas the Atlantis is more zippy-- definitely faster recovering. Equally easy to modulate line speed and loop size.

TFO feels like a spey rod to me (nothing wrong with this) while the Atlantis feels like a different animal entirely. Atlantis is definitely lighter in hand, but the TFO does (for my 2 hours of casting) a better job of telegraphing what's going on with the cast.

Distance and control was qual with both rods, but I sense that an 11wt head for the atlantis and a 13wt head for the TFO would bring even more distance. HOWEVER...I like the idea of these rods for repetetive 80-90' casts with the occasional glory shot. Much beyond a 50' shoot, the issue of how to deal with all that GD running line is still an issue. Remember the alvey-reel idea???

Jazzman's comments re: fit and finish in other posts do not require repeat from me. CND makes a wonderfully finished rod with higher grade components-- I do wonder how a larger set of strippers would be on the Atlantis?

OH... and the four piece thing on the TFO is really handy.

last thing--- Jay Horton has a great bit of documentation for the TFO 1212 covering everything from lines to leaders. Good on you 2handthesalt!

Differences not withstanding...two wonderful rods well worth their price.

I look greatly forward to a more thorough test of both rods in the Keys later in the winter and at the Catt in the spring...and the coast soon after.

Anyone tried full DT lines with these rods??? I like trying rods with DT lines as I find i can assess loop formation at long distances best with these lines.
 

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201 Posts
BA, I got an idea for you, regarding the TFO with the 12-weight heads:

Assuming left foot forward, try drifting the rod well behind you on the back cast taking special care to keep the right elbow level on both the fore and back casts. Make the fastest speed-up-and-stop that you can on the forecast to tighten-up the loop. I think that might get you up to easy 80+.

When you have that down, it is time to start shooting some line into the back cast to load the rod even further. With about two-feet of head inside the tip top, shoot 3-4' of line into the final back cast, then trap the line and make the cast.

Zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom! :whoa:

Be extra careful not to get any appendages caught in the shooting line as it is whizzing through the guides. :eek: ;)
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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1,771 Posts
Sounds like you are well on your way to exploring the nuances of both of these rods. At those casting distances the characteristics of line matching and casting technique are quite different than the 120ft plus distances we are consistently reaching on the beach with shooting heads and average 6" saltwater flies.

I could not offer a comparison of the two personally, but I do find it interesting how people perceive rod loads differently. There was recently a thread where the caster felt that the Atlantis required more grains to load whereby you perceive the opposite. I really couldn't say as I have not cast the TFO but have some line information to offer for the Surf-tamer:

The shorter the head, the less grains you can use effectively; thus for a 30ft head like the Wulff, under 500 grains loads it fine; for 35ft heads, the Airflo 12wt loads it fine; and for 45ft heads we are putting the 12wt DI7 at over 600 grains without a problem and with the Hardy Mach I 10/11 at 52ft we are easily carrying 648 grains.

We are also reaching casting distances double those you are talking about above (140ft and beyond) with some of the specialized heads.

Lines I have tried and liked include:

Wulff 12wt tarpon taper (full line, 32ft head)
SA 12wt Intermediate (full line, 3* ft taper)
Airflo 12wt clear intermediate (std head config)
*New Airflo 40plus Striper Two-hander lines (avail 2005)
Hardy Mach I 10/11 full salmon line (52ft head)

SA 38ft shooting heads (38ft)
Airflo Clr and DI3-7 Multihead Shooting tapers (35ft)
Airflo DI7 Expert Multihead Shooting tapers (45ft)
Rio Scandinavian (cut to 38ft)

(I don't have the grains handy as I am typing this off the cuff)

I have plans to test additional lines in 2005 as my budget allows.

Optimum head length for my fishing applications is 35-40 ft, because this length can be fished best on the beach while not compromising flight characteristics too badly over 120'+ distances.

With all due respect most 11wt lines load the Surf-tamer on the light side, the Hardy Mach I and Spey lines being the exception. We rated the rod 11/12wt because it's more on the 11wt end of things for two-hander and salmon lines while being clearly on the 12wt side for typical single hand lines due to the above mentioned head length / grain ratios whereby longer can carry more grains given the same rod.

Hope that helps.

[1]Andrew Moy, Tightlines Flyfishing (sponsor) casting in the Danbury Flyshow Parking lot...[/1]
http://cndspey.com/video/over_suv2.avi
 

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Yo Brooklyn

(Sorry, but have to say Yo every time I think of you and your moniker)

Weird indeed. I'm the guy who thinks the TFO loads with lighter grainage, and its interesting you found the opposite to be true, Joe. Notice that Jay's line specs for the TFO start in the high 300s (up to way, way more), whereas most of the Atlantis recommendations from Juro and others seem to be 500 + as ideal. Jay -- don't you think the TFO loads with less grainage than the CND??? Then again, the Airflo intermediate and DI3 35 ft. multiheads both weigh around 470 grains apiece (I weighed to check them), and both seem to work on both rods pretty well. Andrew from Tightlines casts those things a MILE.....
The SA saltwater floating taper that Jay recommends for the TFO feels great on that rod -- used it alot this summer at Chapin, Juro -- whereas it felt light for the Atlantis. It's 37.5 foot head is about 430 grains. What I really need to try is a heavier 35-38 foot head on the Atlantis, either a Scan. 9/10 cut to 35 (about 550 grains) or that new Airflo designed for two-handers. It may that I need more grains, like the recommended 550 range, on the Atlantis because I'm such a beginner with two hands. Not much of an overliner with one handers, but two's another story.
 

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a/k/a loophitech
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457 Posts
i'll have to point out one of Juro's lines, the Hardy 10/11. I tried this over the past month or so and found myself reaching distances past 100' which is incredible for me!! To feel the tug of the line on the reel after every cast is a phenomanal feeling!

the atlantis physically feels that it can handle more grains than the 10/11 Hardy has as it feels light and crisp when casting. However, this rod throws this line like nobodies business!! A great match up especially when the line is cut for tips.

vinnie
 

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Damn fish ladder
Joined
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199 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yo back at ya

Jazzman--- The Yo is appropriate. Many don't get the inconguity of the moniker. You do. This is why you are the jazzman. You improvise. You create magic. You are a shaman, campadre.

Re: my line thoughts...I primarily fish with cane rods. I've been casting cane rods all winter and fall. My casting rhythms are perhaps set for rods that are very full working.
 
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