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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been encountering a new problem with my switch cast during practice. I have a problem with the point of my D/V loop wrapping around behind me and not staying square to the target (which is just straight ahead).

I start the cast with a head height (or slightly higher) lift and horizontal back stroke rising to the key, but I find that the rod unloads the line slightly in towards me causing the loop to be pulled back out and around me on the forward stroke. The usual point of unload for the back stroke is about 90 degrees from dead ahead or right off my shoulder. If I try and load and stop the rod sooner I don't feel that the lift is as smooth and other "stuff" happens.

It's really giving me fits on my forward loop as it will corkscrew outbound and is killing the anchor it isn't 180 degrees to the target.

Anyone encountered this before and if so were there any simple exercises or techniques that helped the road to recovery? I have found that a higher lift and stroke (above head height) flattening out the "bowl" helps straighten this out somewhat but I'm not quite clear if this is proper technique to practice and feel like I'm just casting around a problem which is already limiting my potential. Perhaps a review of the whole process is in order (yet again).

Image attached (no poking fun at the outfit...it's still hot here). Thanks.

-Chris
 

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for what its worth:)

with traditional casting i'm a huge fan of Derek Brown's approach- lift the whole rod to clear the line from the water, with both hands ie- left and right hand equally lift the rod- no hinging around a specific hand - straight/in line lift , no pulling /twisting etc just lift the line clear- when the line is clear sweep the rod tip back into the firing position- shallow dip of the rod tip- this forms the loop- when the anchor appears- excecute the delivery- all done to waltz time lift 1-2 loop 1-2 cast 1-2- plop!!!! as my daughter loves to quote- ( Dad he has the same accent as you do- sounds weird!- is the other fav:))). What tends to happen is that the right shoulder rotates back, making the rod tip follow a curved path versus a straight one- so the line follows- the loop forms behind the caster instead of 180 degs to the anchor point and bingo- probs!!.So straight up lift/straight line sweep back and slightly inside delivery, if you need/want to make the rod tip travel further back- slide your shoulder back versus turn it/rotate shoulders . I,ve noticed for me the lift is the key- it sets up everything else- if its controlled/straight and purposed then eveything else follows- for what its worth:)

hop[e that helps

Will
 

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Your right foot

Chris:

I've probably got no business responding (rookie spey) but couldn't help noticing your set-up and delivery have got to be influenced by your stance and weighting. Seems to me you've got it backwards.

Dave
 

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" The fly line travels in the direction the rod tip travels during the casting stroke."

The tip of your rod is traveling in an arc around you on the back stroke.

And, what's with the right foot forward? Can anyone actually spey cast goofy-footed?
 

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2HandTheSalt said:
what's with the right foot forward? Can anyone actually spey cast goofy-footed?
Maybe 'goofy-footed' is a strange British idiosyncracy; of the top casters I've seen, I think Steve Choate and Knut Syrstad do have their left feet forward. But the likes of Scott M, Gordon A, Ian G, Gary S etc all stand right foot forward and they seem to manage to put a line out fairly well.
 

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#&%*@^# Caster
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Yep I switched to goofy footed after watching the scots cast.For me it seems to help keep everything tighter and actually helped my tendancy to over rotate my hips. I have a bottom hand orientated stroke and do not need to drift horizontally as much as some of the classic long liners do.

Looking at your cast it seems to me you are not coming to defined hard stop and the rod is coming around on you. I would work on watching your rod tip and try to get a better stop on the back cast. Mike Kinney gave me a tip when I was doing this to actually throw the rod up and to the side, away from body. This little tweak helped me get me cast back as I had been struggling with the same thing.

-sean
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Looking at the pic I would guess that you are concerned about the slack in the upper leg corresponding to the upward curve in the bottom leg and wedge, and the width of the wedge in the horizontal. The fact that the loop has a half twist from upper to lower is no problem from a casting perspective but it could be a lot less wide for efficiency.

Before I go on, this is not just about aesthetics - slack in the upper leg may cause recoil thus tailing loops, whip-overs, loss of power etc. Width of the wedge changes the way the line turns over by introducing a lateral tension. So it's not just the pointy loop syndrome ;)

Keeping in mind the switch cast is a practice (not fishing) cast, I believe you are kicking the rod upward during the 'pull' or applying power too late in the d-loop stroke and 'forcing it' (or some combination). Since your d-loop alignment is straight ahead I assume you are not over-rotating but the width of the wedge probably indicates an unnecessarily powerful sweep inward from the side.

I am from the school that believes switch casts are best made with an early and full application of power and no up-kick (rather drift upward after power). This creates a smooth turbulence free d-loop.

We need to keep in mind that some casts like the snake roll often fare much better with a measure of upward kick into the d-loop especially with certain lines and it's important to separate apples from oranges when it comes to specific casts.

So this is not to say that an upward rise during power is a bad thing for all casts, it's just not a great way to make smooth switch casts because it steers the wedge upward and puts slack in the upper leg of the d-loop.

The way I teach smoothness in this is to say that the upward move is part of the forward cast, not the backcast (d-loop) move. Thus complete the pulling back of the line first then raise the rod to maximize the upcoming forward stroke keeping tension intact.

Next time you are in Boston pack some waders I have plenty of rods ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Will, I started "Derek Brown" style and have been trying to upgrade my cast (his words) a bit to carry a longer line. That is where I run into trouble because I do have to stretch myself out to lift that longer line and probably still roll my shoulder around and not slide it back.

Juro, you are good. In addition to all other fault injection techniques I've been practicing, I've tried to move the point of my D/V loop higher off the water, not for sexy loop syndrome, but because I've noticed the point of the D getting a little too low and getting a level drop. My assumption was that if the apex of the D was higher at the beginning of the forward stroke the more efficiently I could pull line "around the track" on the first part of the forward stroke and get a higher tighter loop outbound. Thus, I have been applying some power upward and, because I'm stretched out, late...which seems to cause the tip to deflect back around me too. I am a bit concerned about the path of the tip after deflection, it seems to always pull around me.

I supposed if actually put this on paper I'd would have seen that I needed to account for a shorter top leg and the slack I just injected into my cast. Hmmm?

Question: If I'm starting with a slow lift and shallow dip, where (at what point), and how much power are you applying to to form the cast? And does your tip deflect upward, more horizontally, or dead straight back?

BTW - Goofy-footed? I switch it up so I can cast both ways but I do like top hand and foot forward. Helps stop all that forward momentum.

Thanks all.

-Chris
 

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My Physical Therapist would agree re the Goofy-Footed stance.

2HandTheSalt said:
" The fly line travels in the direction the rod tip travels during the casting stroke."

The tip of your rod is traveling in an arc around you on the back stroke.

And, what's with the right foot forward? Can anyone actually spey cast goofy-footed?
.

I tore my right bicep this year :( , and I have been going to this excellent but very tough Physical Therapist :saevilw: .

I'm fairly ambi-dextrous, but still right hand dominate. When the PT shows me an exercise to do with weights, I sometimes will stand with my right foot forward while trying to use my right arm. This gets an immediate: "Don't do that! You could hurt yourself again!"

I have gone through my various Spey Casting hand positions with him with various casts. Again the warning to never cast goofy footed unless I've become a world class ambi dextrous athlete/Spey Caster, which I'm not and never will be.

He says the two handed spey casts are very similiar to two handed sword sparring. So, when the right hand is the dominant or upper hand, the left foot should be extended. The opposite is done when the left hand casts are done.

A couple of months ago I was having pain even with the correct foot position on the upper parts of my casts. He advised me to extend my thumbs on both hands up the rod handle. That has increased my range of motion, ease of the upper movements and basically eliminated the need of using an Aleve before casting or fishing.
 
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