Sweep mysteries
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curious about this too
I find I get a better load on the rod when casting off my upstream shoulder and sweeping against the direction of the current. Presumably, there's a greater load on the rod due to water friction by the current.
If the above is true, are there any suggestions/modifications one should make when sweeping in the same direction of (or against) the current?
I find I get a better load on the rod when casting off my upstream shoulder and sweeping against the direction of the current. Presumably, there's a greater load on the rod due to water friction by the current.
If the above is true, are there any suggestions/modifications one should make when sweeping in the same direction of (or against) the current?
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This is where line mending brings a lot to the Party.
Depending upon how fast you want your swing a up stream mend then follow the line with your rod tip. Tip above the line will slow down the swing, rod tip ahead of the line will tend to speed up the swing.
Fav place to cast has a bit of 'slow water' right off the beach and you can really play the game as your fly moves with the current. The edge of the two gives you the 'perfect seam' to run down your fly(s). Just personal preference but the slower my flies moving the better. :smokin:
Depending upon how fast you want your swing a up stream mend then follow the line with your rod tip. Tip above the line will slow down the swing, rod tip ahead of the line will tend to speed up the swing.
Fav place to cast has a bit of 'slow water' right off the beach and you can really play the game as your fly moves with the current. The edge of the two gives you the 'perfect seam' to run down your fly(s). Just personal preference but the slower my flies moving the better. :smokin:
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Skagit Double Spey
When doing a traditional sweep, that is starting low, gradual incline, rise to key position & fire, the cast is dependent upon the "white mouse" to load the rod. The "white mouse" (or white rat as I used to call it) is created by the ripping the line off the water at a faster rate than the current speed. Therefore, when in faster current the sweep must be faster.
There is another sweep not dependent on the white mouse, but on centrifugal force. The rod tip is held high all the way through the sweep, throwing the line out & around to load the rod. This method is demonstrated in depth on the Skagit Master I DVD.
On the matter of wading deep and the cast, Alexander Grant theorized that for every foot of elevation the rod tip was above the water, you gained nine feet of distance to the cast. That was a long time ago when men were men & rods were 20ft long. (and casts were 150 ft without shooting line) With that in mind, I prefer to work at depths ranging from shin to hip depth.
When doing a traditional sweep, that is starting low, gradual incline, rise to key position & fire, the cast is dependent upon the "white mouse" to load the rod. The "white mouse" (or white rat as I used to call it) is created by the ripping the line off the water at a faster rate than the current speed. Therefore, when in faster current the sweep must be faster.
There is another sweep not dependent on the white mouse, but on centrifugal force. The rod tip is held high all the way through the sweep, throwing the line out & around to load the rod. This method is demonstrated in depth on the Skagit Master I DVD.
On the matter of wading deep and the cast, Alexander Grant theorized that for every foot of elevation the rod tip was above the water, you gained nine feet of distance to the cast. That was a long time ago when men were men & rods were 20ft long. (and casts were 150 ft without shooting line) With that in mind, I prefer to work at depths ranging from shin to hip depth.
Thank you Speyers for your input. Just one other thought or question why when SH over head casting must I accelerate the rod tip to keep the rod loaded even when making a water haul, but constant speed without acceleration when making a sweep keeps the rod loaded? Thanks again slack
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135 Posts
If you are doing a double spey, whether with a Skagit or any other set-up, your sweep will always occur with the current regardless of river right vs. left. Unless, of course, your line floats upstream after your cast. [Insert "duh" emoticon here]
Here is my guess:
In the absence of a medium -- which, overhead casting, is true to first approximation -- F = MA, so, mass being constant, force is proportional to acceleration. Constant acceleration = constant force = constant load. And I don't agree this is true with a water haul. Go try a really really fast pickup with a floating line water loaded, preferably with a rod you don't mind sending away for repair.
With resistance of a fluid medium, force is proportional to velocity, typically nonlinearly so. So, constant velocity, constant force. It is also true that a rotating object at fixed rotation speed is under constant inward acceleration, but I'm skeptical this is a significant effect in rod loading during the sweep of a spey cast.
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Rod load vs overload
The start slow & speed up thing is all about defeating water friction, getting all the slack out of the line, getting it moving, and then pulling it off the water to properly load the rod. Properly being defined as an even bend in the blank, as opposed to collapsing the tip by trying to jerk the line off the water.
When first starting out in this spey thing, just keep to the basics, without trying to get too technical. Information overload leads to confusion. There are little tricks that can enhance the cast, but they must come at a later date & one at a time. You must first learn to walk, before you can run grasshopper.
BTW: although irrelevant to the discussion, the formula is F=MV²
The start slow & speed up thing is all about defeating water friction, getting all the slack out of the line, getting it moving, and then pulling it off the water to properly load the rod. Properly being defined as an even bend in the blank, as opposed to collapsing the tip by trying to jerk the line off the water.
When first starting out in this spey thing, just keep to the basics, without trying to get too technical. Information overload leads to confusion. There are little tricks that can enhance the cast, but they must come at a later date & one at a time. You must first learn to walk, before you can run grasshopper.
BTW: although irrelevant to the discussion, the formula is F=MV²
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30 Posts
found a gem of info
Thanks guys for your responses. I also came across a great thread with a wealth of info.
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=33702
It's amazing the amount of detail and desription given. (I mean that in a good way).
Thanks guys for your responses. I also came across a great thread with a wealth of info.
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=33702
It's amazing the amount of detail and desription given. (I mean that in a good way).
Sorry to be both pedantic and off-topic, but there is no force for which F=MV².
F = (bunch of other constants) * V², perhaps.
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Deeper wading can mean you have to adjust your overhang and/or your hand height.
As far as the double goes, if current speed is so fast that changing the anchor point still doesn't compensate enough, I'd switch casts to a snap/circle something so the sweep rips against the current, or just do rolls and singles if possible.
As far as the double goes, if current speed is so fast that changing the anchor point still doesn't compensate enough, I'd switch casts to a snap/circle something so the sweep rips against the current, or just do rolls and singles if possible.
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