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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering what the folks who fish bigger/deeper rivers with full sink lines verses tips consider reasonable working distances?. Also would it be correct to assume that with a full sink line it is wise to step down a line wt.? or 10/11 floater=10/11 sunk line given equal grain weights. Ok that was two wonderings:)

Will
 

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Curious why you would go to a full sink line as opposed to shooting head system that is much easier to cast. You may actually have a bit better control with a shooting head system - easier to guide it through runs and mend than with a full line.
 

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Prairespey,

Never used one myself but I had the pleasure of watching Nobuo Nodera (Cherrypick on here and CND rod owner/designer) fish one on the Skykomish one day. I can't speak to how easy it was for him but the man was simply letting it rip. Fishable casts in excess of 90' using his Salmo Salar Specialist.

sinktip
 

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Sunk Line Work

OK so I am a Scot and masochism is a well known trait in my gene pool but there is a perverse satisfaction in rolling out a long sunk line and then cutting through adverse spring winds using the dense,thin profile of the full sinker. It also catches lots of fish !
For many years I happily fished a SA DT11 Wet Cel 2 speying 90-105 feet in the kind of waters which probably equate to prairiespey's "bigger/deeper rivers". I concede however that this could be considered hard work in all but helpful winds.
To compare with tips, my spring fishing was kind of transformed last year when I was persuaded to acquire a Rio Accelerator with the full pack of tips. Most of my springers last year were caught using the No6 tip casting and swinging with the line marked to hand at 105'. Easier work and I think I was achieving the same kind of depth as a Wet2 but with the advantage of being able to mend during the swing.
To comment on your other question, I would say it is unwise to assume that you should step down a line wt. That would have 2 undesired consequences.
Firstly the lighter line will in most cases have a slower sink rate and secondly it is easier to cut through adverse spring winds with the heavier line so long as your rod is up to the job.
This year I acquired an Ian Gordon Medium Sink 75' head 11/12 model. Fishing yesterday on the Tay at Stanley (big river !) it coped easily with speying a tube fly 90-105' on my Bruce & Walker 16' Norway which is actually rated 9/10. One roll cast with the 16ftr usually sufficed before going into the spey.I have still to try it on my 15' Clan 10/11 rod but I have no doubt that it will cope.Only managed to hook and land 3 kelts on the I G line yesterday but delighted to report that I had my first springer of the season ( a cracking 10pdr) from the Dee on 7th Feb.
As for fast sinking shooting heads, I have them and occaisionally use them on the Tay at Rome Croy where the river is 100 yards wide but I find the stripping in of all that backing a pain. For cast and swing fishing on big rivers at reasonable distances ie 90' plus, give me a long belly line anytime.
Sorry to go on - this is my first post on Spey pages and I must learn to be more concise !
 

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Go ahead on

JimtheFish said:
OK so I am a Scot and masochism is a well known trait in my gene pool ........Sorry to go on - this is my first post on Spey pages and I must learn to be more concise !
Always nice to hear from those whose linage contains anything Spey. What will my grand kids one day say? They live in Texas, have never even seen a real river, let alone felt the current massage their legs, nay tug at their heartstrings.
 

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welcome to the Board

brevity is no virtue when you are providing good information. Please continue to share with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the input:)

For myself having used sunk lines and tips style lines for trout- I felt that sunk lines gave me a better " light bite" feel and was a more even presentation at depth, particularly with unweighted patterns, than sink-tip lines . I have used tips /floater spey setup and it is fine, but , can't resist exploring:)

Will
 

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The med sink Ian Gordon is great. I´ve never fished full sinkers before but after having been in touch with some Scottish salmon anglers I decided to have a go. I must say that I don´t feel it´s more work using a full sinker. if you´re using say the WC + compensator + type 6 tip you also have to roll it up to the surface. When I use the full med sink I raise the rod when pulling in the line I have been shooting and this lifts the line enough for only one roll before the actual cast. Of course, my Bruce & Walker is a tremendously powerful rod, which seems to be able to lift *anything* out of the water :)

Also I love the feel of 30 yards of full sinker plowing through the water. Gives you great contact with the fly! And I agree with Jim that these lines cope really well with strong winds and big flies, which often is what you get/use early in the season. I realize that sink tips are pretty much de stuff in North America, as well as in Scandinavia, but I urge anyone to at least try the full sinkers out.

And oh yes, my full sinking shooting heads come out whenever I´m in a tight spot. I´m DONE with sink tips! :lildevl:
 

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I was lured to the dark side and spent a couple of seasons fishing tips. I thought they were good but then I started to realise that the casting was being comprimised, if you did not roll it to the surface you lost all control of the critical last 20ft, if you did you may as well use a full sinker.

A full sinker gets down to where the fish are even a type 6 sunk tip does not get that far down. Ian Gordon's fast sink line is just great for getting deep, I have lost a lot of flies BUT I have caught a lot of fish. I borrowed it from Ian in October and still have not got round to giving it to him back.

Presentation with a full sinker is miles better, I have used the Accelerator and a cut back XLT but they are (BFB) overweight lines and certainly cannot suggest the presentation is delicate, compare this with a full sinker.
 

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W.G.- Dont get me wrong, I have been a sunk line man for most of my days (caught my first salmon 40 years ago-scary!) and continue to be to this day.
In the majority of high coldwater situations both in spring and backend I will continue to reach for the full sinker.
In defence of the Accelerator Tips however I must say that in all but the slowest of flows/undertows, I am able to lift and spey the 15' type 6 tip without a roll cast first. So long as you keep the loop tensioned and smooth , I have no problem with good presentation at 105' using my 16' B&W. By good presentation I mean casting a good straight line without undue splash on entry.
Where I think the Tips score is in cold medium/low water flows on Rivers like the Dee where you often have rocks near/on the surface in the near water with the fish lying in channels mid river. You can float the belly over the obstacles while your tip and fly is still fishing effectively in the far water.
So after years of avoiding these tips lines like the plague I am now keeping an open mind. The number of springers (&kelts) I caught on the Dee last year with it have influenced me and my opener on 7th Feb. this year was on the no6 Tip.
Having said all that, long live the sunk line - there is nothing quite like it !
 

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To be fair I´ll still use the WC + tips on certain pools, along what Jim posted above :eek: Quite a bit of the rivers in southern Sweden are rocky as hell, with huge boulders in the middle of the stream. Goes to show that you really NEED a full bag of lines wherever you´re fishing :hihi:
 

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Peter,
You just roll the line to the surface then treat it the same as a floater. You should find it more controlable than tips.
When rolling to the top take your time lift the rod very very slowly as long as your rod is moving it will be ok then roll it downstream then just treat as a floater.
 

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My

what a difference of opinions!!! I think it may partially be what you learned to use and partially where you fish. Early on with a single hand rod, there were slower sections that were ideal for different sink rate shooting heads. Near tidewater, especially for salmon, that still may be true. For the rivers I fish, the tips do a great job, so I will stick with them till I get a chance to fish for suspended salmon. I prefer casting the full floater, but the tips are not bad and I don't need to roll them to the surface.

I noticed in his latest book that Simon G. has gone to tips for sunk line work, but he is mostly fishing on this side of the pond now. Is that the difference? :saeek:
 

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too many lines

Lets see, first there were floaters, long leaders & big irons. Next came 15 foot tips in varying sink rates. Then 24 foot big boys. Poly leaders, T-14, compensators. Skagit style tips. now we're talking full sink lines. There ain't enough time. :whoa:
 

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JDJones said:
Lets see, first there were floaters, long leaders & big irons. Next came 15 foot tips in varying sink rates. Then 24 foot big boys. Poly leaders, T-14, compensators. Skagit style tips. now we're talking full sink lines. There ain't enough time. :whoa:
Only over there, from Scotland where Speycasting began we had silk lines that if greased floated if not they sank, not very quickly but they sank, attache a large iron to get down.

Then with modern lines we had floaters and sinkers with slow sinkers or intermediates. In the sixties sink tips were developed but they were more to stop the fly skating.A few years ago Rio started pushing their interchangable tips and almost everybody went that way and it became more difficult to buy a proper full sinker. But for contolled Speycasting sunk lines is the way to go especially if you need to get down tips just do not cut it.
 

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I am using one of Ian Gordon's Partridge mid bellied line, 75 ft head. The fast sink one goes downn at 4"/sec and the med 2"/sec but once rolled up they lift easily. Can whan them out to about 40yds when I set my mind to it and the wind is right.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Great Thread:)
Would anyone have grain weights for the Ian Gordon Mid- Belly Med. and Fast sink lines in 9/10/ ,10/11? .

Will
 

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Peter-
you do not say what kind of line you are getting apart from a DT Intermediate. The DT profile in itself will probably limit your line pickup but in any event it usually pays to strip in some line and shoot it.
I use the Lee Wulff Intermediates with 80' heads - excellent speycasting lines. I use the 10/11 for normal conditions with light winds and the 11/12 for anything up to galeforce - it cuts the wind like a knife through butter making 35 to 40 yard casts possible.
 

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Interesting this topic should come up at this point in time.

I'm also on the 'search' for full sinking spey lines. "Research" todate suggest (other than 90' lines) there are 'no' spey line length lines sold by anyone in the US at this time.

However, Snowbee UK suggests that's about to change in March/April as they're going to 'introduce' full sink lines in the US. Price is not yet available so no comment on that topic at this time.

I've done a considerable amount of 'basic research' on the UK fly board and the general cons. is, as one fellow put it, "you get down into places you've only dreamed about.'

As a 'test bed' I purchased an 8wt full sinker to try on a new St. Croix one hander. Actually easer to cast that I'd thought and it really does sink like a rock. No! Question that this line is getting down deeper, and faster, than a sink tip set up. Not quite sure how these lines would stack up against a RIO sink tip+ compensator.
 

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Orvis used to sell a 120ft DT intermediate line. Perhaps they still do. I have a couple pieces of water where I think a slow full sinker would be ideal.

I've a Hardy DT9 type II that I came on a Salmon 1 spool and have thought about using it for some time, though I think it wouldn't be as handy. Anyone like to trade for an intermediate?
 
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