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Why do you want Sunday fishing?

At a time when rivers like the Spey are taking steps to reduce the number of man hours spent fishing, any move to allow increased fishing effort seems to fly in the face of conservation.

Or are you proposing to introduce a rest day during the week in place of Sunday? Seems to me that this will only offend the strict religious elements that are still influential in parts of Scotland.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Gardener.
I do not believe that the inherent problems facing uk salmon stocks will be solved by reducing fishing man hours. Why would the religious element take offence to sunday fishing when you can fish for stocked trout and coarse fish on a sunday.
 

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mickgbell said:
I do not believe that the inherent problems facing uk salmon stocks will be solved by reducing fishing man hours.
Agreed, reducing rod hours certainly won't solve the problems, & I didn't suggest that. My point was that increasing man hours can only increase pressure on fish, which is contrary to current conservation efforts. I also feel is is bad PR, and actually somewhat hypocritical, to argue for increased fishing opportunities for rods, while simultaneously trying to reduce netting effort.

mickgbell said:
Why would the religious element take offence to sunday fishing when you can fish for stocked trout and coarse fish on a sunday.
Not being a 'wee free' I shan't attempt to answer that. In fact, I'm probably not the right person to ask to defend anything based on religious belief or dogma! I quite agree that there is, on the face of it, a logical inconsistency. But nevertheless I think that, in the Western Isles, for example, you will find that your proposal would cause offence. And one thing I think we have learned is the need to respect other people's religious views, whatever our own opinions of them may be. Moreover, it would seem a bit arrogant for someone who doesn't even live in Scotland to lobby for a change in the law that will offend sections of the community that do actually live there, wouldn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Gardener.
An interesting point but I would prefer to think that the more fishermen and fishing days there are the more the Scottish parliament would sit up and address the bigger picture.
Do the Christians object to golf on Sundays ?
Incidentally I live in the Ettrick Valley near Selkirk ( Scotland)
 

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Of all the stupid ill thought out ideas this must be the worst ever.
Since the Dee opened on 2nd February, the 1st February being a Sunday,I have only had 3 days when I have not fished barring sundays of course.
If I had to fish Sundays when could I wash the car, cut the grass, see my wife and familly during the daylight hours, buy bread and ham for the next week sandwiches. Then a bit of flytying in the evening.
Next you will be suggesting shortening the close season.

If you want a serious answer ask the gillie the next time you are out, do not expect a decent rotation and of course check all the knots and yes a 3" brass tube is always used for grilse when the water is low.

This has nothing what ever to do with relegion just plain common sense from the Scots.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Williegunn.
You are letting your heart rule your head. Your reply almost suggests that I want Sunday fishing to become obligatory !
Lets examine the facts: Not all rivers employ the services of a ghillie and those that do could potentially have the CHOICE to fish on Sundays, If you dont want to. Dont. It's quite straightforward. It would be interesting to hear from English Welsh or Irish ghillies to see what they think. Gardener made a suggestion to include Sundays but exclude another day. OK lets not fish on wednesdays, Sundays would be more popular surely. Lets face it guys salmon fishing is an important tourist resource for the Scots, you seem to want to ignore that. So when the rivers are devoid of salmon and all your guests have gone to Russia will you be happy then ?
 

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If I was to take a weeks fishing and paid for the Sunday I would surely want to fish the Sunday. When would the visitors from the south travel north? And return? Would they take another days holiday? If a beat had to employ another gillie to cover for days off the cost of the fishing would increase the attractiveness of foreign fishing

I cannot see why you think that allowing people to fish on a Sunday would increase the number of salmon in the rivers, or am I misunderstanding your last sentence?
Part of the attraction of salmon fishing in Scotland is the tradition so I think that the best idea is to leave things as they are, allow Sundays for travelling, resting the beats, allow the gillies a chance to play golf and get drunk.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sunday fishing

Williegunn.
I accept your observations regarding travelling for those rods lucky enough to take a whole week off. I am not so fortunate and my business commitments only allow me to take short breaks which is why the Sunday ban is so annoying, let me explain. I live in the Borders and have a season ticket on the Ettrick, unfortunately I work in London and if I want to fish at the weekend I either drive up at three o'clock on Saturday morning and arrive at 0900 for a full days fishing only to have to return again on Sunday. If we could fish Sunday I could justify staying over til the monday, fish all day and then drive back in the evening. Even if I fly it doesn't really help. Incidentally ALL the members of the syndicate live south of London . We do not have a ghillie on the river because the Buccleuch estate cannot justify one because the river is not fished enough !!!! If you think that your idea of reducing man hours is helping salmon stocks my syndicate should be nominated for an award !! The answer to your question regarding sunday ghillies is to tell the rods to pay the wages. Nobody would object to this surely ? It is obvious that you and I will not agree on this because we are looking at the overall problem from completely different veiwpoints. My position is based on influencing parliament and the relevant authorities to recognise salmon fishing as a true resource, one thing they do not do at the moment, only then will we see sensible political decisions and restictions imposed, If take "private" success stories like the Ranga or Delphi we know what can be acheived. Look at the Irish situation at the moment if you want to see how politically unimportant salmon fishing is !! We used to fish in Ireland three or four times a year and wouldn't dream of going back until they have stopped the netting...the politicians will eventually take the view that the reduction in tourists sport fishing means that spending money on long term development is a waste...and it only goes down from there.
The Scottish parliament is , as we both know, not interested in field sports and fishing as a resource. This is wholly unacceptable and without reason. Have you seen the brochure the tourist board has sent out promoting golf in Scotland ? It must have cost a fortune..where is the equivalent document promoting stalking, shooting and fishing ? Politicians are not interested anything other than numbers.
Just wait until some twit presents a bill to ban stalking, which I think would easily get through under the same provisions as hunting...why not ? If we reduce the number of salmon fisherman visiting the country we reduce the politcal influence accordingly. Why not double the fisherman, double the man hours, double the value to the local economy, double the political influence and instigate immediate catch and release on all rivers. This is the Russian model. I have a week on the Varzuga at the end of May. I would far rather catch the same numbers of fish on the Dee or the Spey. ****
 

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Re: Sunday fishing

mickgbell said:
Williegunn.
let me explain. I live in the Borders and have a season ticket on the Ettrick, unfortunately I work in London and if I want to fish at the weekend I either drive up at three o'clock on Saturday morning and arrive at 0900 for a full days fishing only to have to return again on Sunday. If we could fish Sunday I could justify staying over til the monday, fish all day and then drive back in the evening. Even if I fly it doesn't really help. Incidentally ALL the members of the syndicate live south of London . We do not have a ghillie on the river because the Buccleuch estate cannot justify one because the river is not fished enough !!!!


****
Just to help out I would be prepared to fish your rod for you during the prime weeks, I would not expect payment though help with the accomadation costs/ travel would be appreciated. I would of course fund my own drinks bill. Please reply as soon as posssible to my kind offer.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Willie gunn.
You are most welcome to fish on our beat as my guest. Can I suggest the first week of November for two reasons firstly it is prime time and seccondly you will obviously have closed. I have two ghillies on the Dee who are pals of mine fishing the same week so you will be in good company.
I will contact you later re: accomodation, I may be in the middle of a refurb ! My pals stayed in the pub last year and had a real craic.
Regards.
****
 

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Mr Bell you are a true gentleman.

I'm glad I never found the tongue in cheek smilely
 

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I used to really like the no sunday fishing it meant that it was the travel day no need to rush up to say the Carron @ Bonar bridge to catch the last few hours of the day .No problem with sunday morning loading the car and leaving the river ,I often got back to work on a monday without being totally wrecked ,though loch Dionard left me wrecked that is a long one day drive .
These days budget restraints mean I,m of to Scotland for just a day or two at a time ,likely to be mid week so again i dont need sundays .
As to the Scottish Parliment fishers have so little effect on that bunch of suckers up to the fish farming industry ,that I think to re establish democracy they should send in those spanish troops being pulled out of Iraq .Malcom where is the tounge in cheek smiley !
 

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Couldn't find him anywhere.
Andy I was impressed when you drove up to fish the Spey opening week, I must find you some more days next year.

When are you up again? next week or the week after?
 

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Finances grim

Finances grim at present ,so its all on hold for a wee while .
theres lots of work coming which could fix situation shortly .
Crossed fingers here .
 

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Value to Economy

I have at times cursed the law which forbids fishing on Sundays. Fishing spate rivers on a Saturday, when their is filthy, high water, trees, sheep, deer etc., tumbling down the valley, and thinking "It will be perfect tomorrow!!".
Also, working all week and then a family get together on a Saturday, thinking "If only I could fish on a Sunday!"
However, I do think it is a good idea to rest rivers for a day, especially on heavily fished association water. I think that it may make more sense to rest the rivers on a weekday.
Nearly all my fishing is done on day tickets; staying in central Scotland allows me access to a wealth of waters within a couple of hours drive. However, it is annoying if planning a weekend away somewhere that I can't drive on the Friday, fish the Saturday, enjoy a few drinks and a nice meal in the evening, fish the Sunday and then drive home.
Instead, my wallet stays intact, and the hotels, restaurants and bars, local to the fishing lose out on business.
Glasgow Caledonian University recently carried out a survey for the Scottish Executive of the estimated value that fishing brings to the Scottish economy. I cannot remember exactly, but I think the figure was £181 million per annum. The majority of this sum is spent by game anglers. Apparently, this information has been like a pin in the backside of MSP's and they are likely to be stirred into some action, well as much action as is expected from an MSP.
Hopefully, they may assess the salmon farming issues, funding requirements, and who knows Sunday fishing issues that have all been discussed on this board.

****, I contacted you recently regarding rod blanks, will get back in touch; unplanned financial outlays in the last month or two have put a stop on my tackle purchasing/building!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Gary.
I sent ten seperate emails to MSP's on Monday just to gauge reaction, nothing to radical just information seeking. To date none have replied apart from one informing me that I should raise the issue with someone else...not him!
I have to be candid about resting pools, I can't really see that it matters unless we are concerned with bank erosion perhaps, Falkus said you cannot overfish a lie and in any case who is to say that the fish that we were fishing for ten minutes ago has not been replaced with another etc.. last year the pool behind my house had 25 resident fish in it for months, every day ( apart from Sunday) enthusiastic anglers covered these fish time and time again morning noon and afternoon and not one stirred in the least. These fish wen't potted they were virtually smoked ! Resting the pool on Sunday made no difference whatsoever..............incidentally, the really interesting thing about these fish were the number of bubbles they were blowing, have you come across this ? I have seen no reference to it in any of the journals. The local farmers say that it is commonplace and years ago when we had some weed in the river it was a sure giveaway to men with forks.. I 'll share this with you... Brendan Begley once said to me "when a salmon writes a book I'll read it "
Let me know if you need anything blank wise. Regards ****.
 

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Stubborn Fish

****,

I sometimes wish that resting a pool had a greater effect than we sometimes percieve. I was fishing on the North Esk on Saturday. There were four rods on the beat, we all knew each other, so agreed to split up with two fishing the bottom of the beat and two fishing the top.
I opted for the bottom end, and just as I was coming to a known lie, a fresh fish splashed right in front of me. It would not look at anything. When we rotated, the two on the top of the beat told us that there were about eight to twelve fresh fish in a glide at the top of a certain pool. They had not connected with any fish, but my optimism made me try every fly, line, and presentation for these fish also.
It transpired that the beat had not been fished for a few days prior to us arriving, so it was well rested. I think if anybody was going to get a fish, it would have been the first person to swing a fly through that glide. However, there were no takers, rested or not rested.
The water was a bit on the low side, that is my excuse anyway.

Cheers for now,
Gary.
 

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Almost Forgot

****,

If you have any useful address's for MSP's send them on to me and I will also post my concerns to them.


Regards,
Gary
 
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