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Discussion Starter #1
On another thread in another forum, Pupafoo had some friendly suggestions for T&T about ways he'd like their very fine products improved. That got me thinking: what do I wish some of my favorite companies would do or stop doing? Here are my two wishes:

1. Scott would bring back the old grey unsanded finish for their rods; I've loved that finish from the moment I saw it, especially with those dark red wraps.

2. All reel companies, Ross in particular, would just say no to plastic of any kind.

-Debarb
 

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EAT IT!!!
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Debarb,

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I have seen fewer Ross reels fail in my years than just about anything else. Especially the ones with plastic parts! If there were a better material for the job, I am sure they would be using it. While it may not look super cool, it flat out works in the places they use it.

My suggestion to all reel manufacturers would be no CORK of any kind :devil:

Yeah, the unsanded Scotts were cool, I have three of them, and they are all great rods. I don't think they set the worl on fire with their sales though. People seem to want the "polished" look to a rod, especially for the $$$$$ that they are going for.

I guess I want a fully machined trout reel, with a click pawl, not a saltwater drag. That is my wish. Yes, I know there are a few around, but they are more money than they should be (hardy, abel), or the clickers are completely ineffectual (Ross Colorado, oh wait, they dropped that one) As far as two handers go, just getting some standardization for line weights would be cool. Well, that's my $.02:)
 

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Dr.Swing,
in your quest for a fine machined click/pawl reel have you checked out the Islanders? In my experience they are bomb proof, great looking and not too hard on the wallet.
Brian Niska
 

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Spigot ferrules???? YUK YUK and double YUK.
just my opinion but spigot ferrules are weaker and provide no advantage of any kind whatsoever.. EVER.
Thanks i like 3 piece spey rods anf greatly prefer them to 4 piece.

Just out of curiosity why do you want ventelated reel frames???

I wish they'd make reels all reels with clicks the louder the better..

amen on the ceramic tip tips though and your right single foor guides are terrible but why replace the snake guide?
 

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JD
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wish list

Well let's see here,,,,

When I was studying tool design, I was taught that it was bad practice to push (pull) against a clamp because it makes them want to come undone. Even after retiring, that thought is still with me. So, though it may be over kill, I still prefer up locking reel seats.

I too used to abhor closed frame reels. Changing spools is much easier on open framed reels. And although all of my reels are the open frame design. the only ones that I change spools on are the single hand reels. So now I even question my logic on that.

I also used favor 4 piece Spey rods because they fit in my little compact car better. But now that I, like everyone else, drive an SUV, it is no longer such a big deal. And since I live in Salmon/Steelhead country now, my Spey rods are seldom taken down. I just hang them on pegs on the garage wall and bungie cord them to the roof racks. Of course, if I had as many rods as Fred,,,,:chuckle:

Plastic corks for rod handles? I duuno. Bob Meiser uses a lot of the artificial cork on his rods. It is heavier than cork and has a different feel, not to mention looks, and it seems to stiffen up the butt section somewhat. I kind of have mixed feelings on the use of imitation cork, even for wine stoppers. But I think it is a shame that, even for $700+ we can't get good quality cork on a rod these days.

O.K. so what's on my wish list?

I would like to see a 15 foot 8 wt rod designed to cast a long line, preferably XLT 7/8. With an up locking reel seat, good quality cork grips, including cork (maybe imitation here) insert. I would prefer a larger diameter thin walled blank as opposed to smaller diameter thick walls, to keep the weight down. Fast action, but progressive rather than all in the tip. Spigot ferrules please. I don't care what kind of finish it has as long as it is not some gawd awfull red, yellow, candy apple ******* or kid color. T&T style rod sock, cordura covered tube in some shade of brown or green. Import the tube and cover, if you must. Even the hardware. But make the blank and assemble the rod here, in the US. And since we're not all rich doctors or lawyers, keep the price under $500 please.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Spigot-based construction allows lighter weight overall and smoother flex profile through the transition of sections.

We discovered that solid titanium tip guides shed ice at a noticably higher rate than other guides on the Specialist Series.

Consistent spey line ratings!!!

Standardized reel seats and/or hole patterns for interchanging them.

Lots of good points.
 

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JD
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Ha ha

Well I see I did ruffle some feathers. :chuckle:

I'll be willing to sacrifice real cork for wine stoppers in order to save it for our rods. It's just that my fancy, dancy, wine opener does not like the imitation corks. ;)

As for down locking reel seets balancing out better, it's all a matter of location. One, or two more (cork) rings on the upper, one, or two less rings on the lower grip. Meiser & I had a little discusion on that subject also.

And no, I no longer drive a small car. It's not so much that I especially like three piece rods, it's just that, for me, it's no big deal anymore.

And vented reel frames not only wash out better, thay also wash in worser. And is lighter really better on a Spey reel? And do a little math. You'll find that the weight savings gained by venting the back side of an aluminum reel frame is negligable.

I'm waiting to hear from some of the rod manufactures about why they can't make "my rod" :devil:
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Re: wish list

JDJones said:
Well let's see here,,,,
When I was studying tool design, I was taught that it was bad practice to push (pull) against a clamp because it makes them want to come undone. Even after retiring, that thought is still with me. So, though it may be over kill, I still prefer up locking reel seats.
Given the size of "spey reels" (if I may be allowed to use the generalized monniker e.g. spey "rods", etc) and the associated weight, size, balance - wouldn't it be smarter to have the reel pushing against the solidly mounted bottom hood while being secured in place by the upper ring on a threaded shaft?

In the uplock scenario the secured hood is away from the weight of the reel and the adjustable ring on the thread is where all the weight "pushes" against. I can't see how this is better.

Consider this scenario:

The uplocking seat ring is very loose. How will the reel react when you make a strong cast?

The Downlocking seat ring is very loose. Reaction?

In the latter case the reel would probably not go anywhere. In the uplocking seat, the reel would probably fly off into the water.

So I guess I am confused on how the mechanics of an uplocking reel seat is better for a device that has 12-15 or more feet held in an upward direction being swung around?

I am much in favor of a down-locking seat for spey casting devices. Clearly it takes less to secure the reel.

The Atlantis is up-locking for maximum clearance of the reel from the end of the handle for strip retrieval purposes. I've noticed a greater ease of securing the reel and more secure cradle for a reel with downlocking seats (as on CND spey action rods) compared to the Surf-tamer, but the clearance it provides is worthwhile. For spey casting such clearance is unimportant.

Maybe I am missing something but I would be curious to learn how the uplock is better for spey casting rods.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Good cork.. Good cork is extremely difficult to find and when you do find it you'll be expecting to pay close to a buck a piece for them so on a spey rod your talking about 20-50 bucks just in cork alone. If you want good cork on a spey rod be willing to pay for it. With the win industry in such a boom we are lucky to have cork for fishing rods at all.

ok whats the difference between a tip over butt ferrule and a spigit ferrule? Here is a hint virtually nothing. A spigot ferrule is a tip over butt ferrule only instead of being engineered into the design of the parts it's a seperate manufacturing process. The female end of the ferrule is reienforced identically to a tip over butt so they are the same weight. The make end is just a piece of graphite glued into the butt of the rod which also has to be reienforced so if anything it's actually heavier than a tip over butt. it's heavier because it requires more graphite reienforcment. Also the ferrule is formed by a piece of graphite that has been engineered by design to fit the female end of the ferrule it is essentially the same as a tip over butt ferrule. They are designed the same way and built out of the same material. Here is the one difference. spigot ferrules can be glued in after the rod has been coated therefore allowing the spigot to be raw graphite which mated very well with the raw graphite on the inside of the female end.
I personally have seen lits of broken spigit ferrules they commonly fail at the botton end of the spigot due to a lack of reienforcment because the manufacturer wanted to keep the weight down.

Why do some manufacture like spigot ferrules? because they haven't realized that we aren't in the 50's anymore and no one is using metal ferrules and therefore there isn't an issue with flat spots in the flex of the rod unless the manufacturer does a bad job of designing.

The biggest problem i see with spey and fly rods now a days is that almost all manufacturers have tops that are way to soft nd collapse under a load and the load is never transfered into the mid and butt. A wimpy tip means your gonna have to work to cast it.. On a side note about that is to protect light tippets on a trout rod you also want a strong tip. if you have a wimpy tip the rod will flex to a point then snap. with a strong tip the rod will continue to flex.. no snap..
thats the whole concept of a progresive action and taper use the whole rod not just the tip.

and I still want loud reels of standard weight. I see no need for constantly lighter and lighter reels or silent ones :)

cheers
 

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Maxima Packaging

Maxima tippet packaging detracts from the utility of the product, for example:
1. The spool diameter is inconveniently large, and unnecessarily so as the material has little memory.
2. The label remains readable for only a few days fishing.
3. The rubber band serves no tippet retention purpose.
4. The plastic half-cover makes using the product more difficult. Perhaps its only purpose is to hang the spools from retail store racks. If so, what's wrong with the center hole?
5. One must save vegetable bands, Rio tippet elastic retainers or purchase Rio LeStraps to most conveniently use Maxima.

The five components of a Maxima tippet spool are tippet, spool, label, rubber band and plastic half-cover. The material is good, the rest is @*#%. Maxima's product presentation appears to be the perfect formula for inviting competition.
 

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Whishes

Right now my cry from the wilderness to the manufactures, is standardize the rods and lines.

So when you purchase an 8 weight rod you purchase an 8 weight line to match. No more 7/8/9 rods and lines.

Now its buy the rod, . Lets see do I want a 7/8, 8/9 ? Really I want a 8 weight but what I get is a rod that is maybe a 7 and maybe a nine. so it may or may not be the rod I want. But I really really wanted an 8.

The lines are worse I cant buy an 8 weight windcutter, 8 weight mid spey, and 8 weight grand spey that are even close to the same weight, or that will cast on the same rod. Therefore 2 of the 3 or maybe 3 of the 3 will not work. This is an expensive guessing game. And it`s not even fun.

Spey casting with the right rod and line is not that difficult to learn, but I feel that at least 50% of the people that give up trying never had the matching equipment. so they put em on EBay. Wake up wake up you are LOOSING MONEY. Not every body has this forum to get the help they need.
 

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Re: Maxima Packaging

Bob Pauli said:
Maxima's product presentation appears to be the perfect formula for inviting competition.
Bob I've got to agree with all your points. :( So much so that I no longer carry Maxima on the water.
 

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Skilly.
Let me give some insight to the multiple line designations on rods.

The company I work for uses a three line weight designation for a very specific reason. It's simply that the rods cast well withnall three lines. This opens up the opportunity for anglers to insert their own personal preference.

There was a rod designed back in the 70's called the Lefty Kreh special. lefty called it the 4/10. He called it that because it cast all line weights from a 4 to a 10 and did them all very well.

We have a popular spey rod model thats a 13ft3" 8wt. We had a customer who had been fishing it with a 9-10-11 WC with tips on his trips to the Dean and elsewhere this is the line we recommend for this rod and it performs very well with it. He had Simon G cast the rod and thought it was really overloaded and recommended the 7-8-9. This customer tried it and found that all along he had a superb dry line rod with a light crisp action. This has been the case all throughout our line of rods. I have a 8'3" 4-5-6wt that I typically fish with a DT4 however when the salmon fly hatch comes out I put a DT5 on it and the rod is completely transformed and turns over the largs bushy flies extremely well.

My point is why designate a rod as an 8wt when it's really a 7 and 8 or a 9?
Having said all that you shouldn't have to experiment with lines. a rod that is properly designed and built it will cast well any fly line designed for that line weight. Rods that don't aren't well designed and built.
sure every rod has a line that makes it feel extra sweet but it should still cast all lines in the apporpriate weight well.
 

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Steelhead are cool!
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15' 8 weight or a 14' 7 weight.:D

Peter a loop on both ends of a shooting head
would be a pain in the butt. You would have to
cast with the head out of the rod all the time.
Its no big deal with a floater or lighter sinktips
but with heavy tips lots of times you need a little
bit of the head in the guides. Shooting line with
a loop in the guides would not work to well.
That is my opinion.

Kevin
 
J

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This thread is a good example of why it's frustrating to be a manufacturer. I can point out reasons why almost every one of these suggestions could be a bad idea. Ventilated and ported frames collect an tremendous amount of crud (dirt, grit, etc.) and are even worse in saltwater use. Since almost all reels in that size range are also used by others in the salt that wouldn't work out very well. Spigot ferrules have some advantages until you get to multi-piece rods (like five and six pieces.) I took a Diamondback six piece rod to Iceland a few years ago only to have the top spigot break on about the tenth cast. The spigot was about the size of the lead in a standard pencil and simply couldn't take the strain. Closed frames are very popular with many saltwater flyfishers because they are inherently stronger and most saltwater FF don't change spools very much. Guys who fish for tarpon and pelagic species often prefer a reel with no outgoing click because it is simply something that can malfunction at the worst possible time. I could go on, but you get the point. Even the fact that we can't agree on uplocking or downlocking reelseats amongst ourselves further demonstrates the problem. I think manufacturers do a pretty good job trying to meet everyone's needs with the possible exception of line ratings for spey rods/lines. By the way, as I've pointed out before, the industry did standardize the reelseat/reelfoot dimensions in 1998. Part of the problem here is that there are different specifications for spey equipment and yet most reels are designed to be a crossover between spey and saltwater. Or maybe I should say that many of us choose to use a reel originally designed for saltwater (or at least a single-handed rod) and the reelfoot therefore may be a tad loose in a reelseat designed to spey specifications. Even then, the spey specs don't have reelseats long enough for many of the old Hardy reels. If the reels used for speyfishing were only going to go on a speyrod, that problem would be easy to solve. However, that is rarely the case. As to Maxima: I once spooled Maxima onto a multi-spool tippet dispenser with a diameter quite a bit smaller than the Maxima spools. Guess what? It seems the Maxima people might have determined the smallest diameter spool they could use without memory being an issue and decided to market their product that way. Since it's been on the market for decades almost without change it seems they made a good decision. I do wish they'd change the label and replace the rubber band, though.
 

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maxima solution

Go to a supplier and pick up two o-rings for each maxima spool. These are 2.8 in i.d. and 3.2 in o.d. Snap two on the spool with the line coming out between the two rings. This holds the Maxima in place with slight tension and works for a few pounds up through 40 #.

I ususlly buy maxima green in 100 yard "bulk" from the dealer then spool in onto the maxima spools by hand, add the two o-rings and you are ready to go at a fraction of the usual cost.
 

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JD
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up locking reel seats & other stuff

Up locking reel seats. The "pull" I'm refering to is when a fish is on. That, to me, is the most critical time when you don't want the reel coming loose.

Rob, Why not just call a 7/8/9 rod an 8 wt? Everyone knows (or should know) you can go up or down one line size and what the effects will be.

I will agree that this whole mess of Spey line size designations further complicates rod designations. Even if, and that's a big if, you were to take one of every line style from a Skagit line up thru a long belly XLT or Grand Spey of whatever size the rod liked best, would/could that same rod really be the optimum design for each line? So would it really do any good if you could re-label all the lines as a single number designation and then be able to do the same with the rod?

I would still like to see Spey lines with one line size designation and some consistancy between line manufacturers. At a least short (WC style) line, should be close to the same no matter who makes it. As should a mid belly, a long belly, whatever.
 

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personal preferance

Rob

Most will not have a personal preferance for the line when they walk into a shop to buy a rod. And you said it exaactly. Each rod has a sweet spot with a certain line. Thats the line you should buy.

So lets say your rod has a sweet spot for a 650 grain line. This is the line that really zings. This is the line the person buying your rod should buy. Then put it somewhere on the rod or with the rod at least. So the buyer can find a line that is 650 grains. Especially beginners have no clue what is the best line. With new rods out none of the buyers have a clue. Beginner or experienced.

Now for the line manufactures. All they have to do is designate lines by grain weight for the head. 650 grains for short head 650 for mid length head. 650 for a long head.

Then I can go buy your rod that casts the 650 grain line well. and get the 650 grain line of my choice and I should be very happy with the combination.

Incidently there is a reason Lefty`s 4/10 isnt on the market. If it had really cast all the lines well it would have changed the market completely. But it didnt.
 
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Peter,

Back to the reels. I understand the idea of freshwater reels and saltwater reels. However, since I sell reels for a living I also know that the majority of people investing a decent sum into a fly reel will expect it to do more than one thing. After all, is a Ross BG7 a freshwater reel or a saltwater reel? The point can also be made that speyfishers might want more weight in their speyreels due to the need to balance a long rod, whereas many guys looking for a saltwater reel are trying to go a little lighter to balance the nine foot single-handed rods which seem to get lighter every year. And, of course, there are those who claim that the need to balance any rod is a myth anyway. My point is that is why the reelseat/reelfoot problem hasn't been solved by the standardization a few years ago, and is not likely to be solved any time soon. It's also why companies like Abel offer the same model reel with both ported frames and solid frames.
 
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