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New to spey casting. I have a nice rig now (my first) set up with backing...shooting line...head...versileader....my question is... do you attach a piece of straight tippet to the loop at the terminal end of the versileader with an improved clinch knot...will it cut trough the factory installed mono loop at the end of the verileader? How do you guys do this. I want to have decent turn over of the fly when I cast...seems like a pain to do a perfection loop in the tippet each time I need to change the tippet??? Its the simple stuff that eludes me!!! Tips anyone?
 

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Hey Don,

I use the perfection loop to attach the tippet to versileaders, poly leaders, MOW Tips, T-whatever etc. Others will use a no-slip loop knot, double surgeons loop etc. You need some sort of loop for the loop to loop connection or you will cut through the versileader coating. Most diameters of tippet you will be fishing will also cut through the coating, even with the loop to loop connection. What I do to avoid this is take a 4-5 inch piece of Maxima chamealeon or ultragreen 20lb or 25lb and make a perfection loop in either end. I then attach this to the versileader and attach the tippet to this. I haven't had any issues with the maxima cutting into the loop on the sinktip. I will just quickly make up a bunch of these short attachments and keep them with my tips.

That being said, even if your tippet cuts through the coating I don't think it is going to do any damage to the core on the inside of the leader as it is likely a heavier mono or similar material anyway. It's more of a cosmetic than fishing or breaking strength issue.

If you have any questions or want to see what it looks like I can post a picture. Hope this helps.

Mike
 

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Many people recommend against perfection loops bc other loop knots are better in terms of strength. I don't know the stats on the knot strengths, but this is the general perception. Double/triple surgeon knots or mono non-slip loop knots are more commonly used/accepted to form the loop in the tippet for a loop to loop connection to your poly leader's or sink tip's factory loop (or manually made loop). But, loop to loop is most commonly used in my experience.
 

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For Versileaders and poly leaders I use Rio tippet rings. Just tie one on to the end of the Versileader with an improved clinch knot and then do likewise with the tippet end. Here is a little video that explains:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just learned the perfection loop...have never needed it in the past...good with nail knots, barel knots, surgeons loops, improved clinch. For some reason I have always resisted another knot...wow its easy..even with light tippet. That will be my knot as I do like the loop to loop connection. Thanks all for your help. I won't resist new knots again.
 

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Here is my experience with Perfection Loops... I have found if I'm using leader under 6lbs I will use a double perfection. It may have been a bad batch of line (it happens sometimes) or just possibly the way a perfection loop cinches down. When trying to rig up some 4lb every perfection loop I ties wouldn't hold (on that particular spool) yet every double surgeon knot held just fine. By held I mean literally pulling the knot tight.
 

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double over and a double surgeon's knot/loop, but I understand that the perfection loop is a much stronger knot/loop at around 95% opposed to the 66% of surgeons.
 

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Here is my experience with Perfection Loops... I have found if I'm using leader under 6lbs I will use a double perfection. It may have been a bad batch of line (it happens sometimes) or just possibly the way a perfection loop cinches down. When trying to rig up some 4lb every perfection loop I ties wouldn't hold (on that particular spool) yet every double surgeon knot held just fine. By held I mean literally pulling the knot tight.
Are you using Florocarbon ??
Florocarbon does not do well with knots that rely on cinching down on the load leg.
Double Surgeon's knot is much stronger and also is true linear, where a Perfection knot is not linear.

I use Double and Triple Surgeon's knots and loops all the time. The odd exception would be using a Blood knot for similar diameter mono materials.


Mike
 

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Flurocarbon in general is harder than equivalent monofilaments, as such given any diameter differences the Fluro. can slice right through the mono. like a hot knife through butter!.
I've used the little leader rings for years(both knotted and glued into place on my poly leaders and tapered leaders) and have never had a moments trouble with them.
Not only does it increase leader life and maintain its length, but it's neater and far less obtrusive, won't attract dross n rubbish to knots and loop's either.
Yorkie.
 

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I would never tie a tippet directly to the sinking tip. Rather tie in a short section of 20 or 25 lb. test Maxima and then tie the tippet to the short, heavier butt section of the leader. The typical sinking tip 'leader' consists of two sections, a heavy butt section and then the tippet (10 to 15 lb. Maxima). Maxima is preferred because of its ability to resist abrasion.

My favourite way to attach the nylon butt section is to use an Albright knot. See: Albright Special or Albright Knot.
 

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I tie my own tapered leaders which all have a small turle not at the big end of the leader. Very simple , strong and make the best loop to loop connection. Easy to tie anytime.
 

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I tied so many leaders in my young fishing life, I can tie a perfection loop in my sleep. I love that knot- so simple and elegant in the tying.

I NEVER use it for anything but the heavy butt end of a leader. I used to. I used to loop all my trout leaders at 2x and loop to loop from there on out- to 10X if necessary.

When I really started swinging flies with dedication 25 years ago, I transitioned it right over to steelheading, and promptly lost the first three really nice fish I hooked. I landed some- smaller, less rambunctious. But the first really, holy-****-what-was-that fish I hooked, I lost all three at the perfection loop.

I've lost plenty of fish in the intervening years, but not at the loop knot I've used since quitting on the perfection loop.

And in answer to your original question- I like to make a small double loop of braided mono to put in the welded tip loop, to protect the fly line from the bite of the mono loop. Somewhere ion here Ard did a tutorial about making them- I do pretty much the same thing. A search should turn it up.
 

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the only stupid question is the the one you don't know the answer to , but are too dumb to ask .
thanks , jim
 
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