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Here we go again!
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Is it in the last few feet of line just before it turns over? That is when it happens to me and only on very long casts when I'm really punching out some distance. I've seen this happen on short shooting heads too when I try to put more power into the cast than the length of the head can handle and the energy sort of explodes out the head and causes the last few feet to go crazy. Best example of that is when I recently tried to crank some super long casts with my Atlantis 11/11 with a head that was barely 30 feet. The head sailed, but kicked like a rented mule at the turnover. This does not explain why I'm seeing the same sort of trait on a 7/8 XLT and 13 foot rod though. I'm sure it has something to do with the application of power in the casting stroke and the abillity of the line to transmit energy through it's length and mass. Have not been able to put my finger on anything other than lightening up on the power a bit and trying not to punch the forward stroke at all. The loops clean up nicely, but then I lose distance.

It's a bit of a head scratcher :confused:
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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The top half is moving too fast for the loop and bottom half speed, or there is turbulence in the power stroke. Most likely caused by either (a) shocking of the rod tip or (b) lack of tension in the top half of the loop while in flight or (c) not enough of a finishing turn-over snap. Actually, some combination is likely as well - and there are numerous other potential causes that only face to face analysis could isolate... but for the fun of it:

The two easiest ways to cure this is:

1) Make sure the cast finishes with a strong tight tip "curl". This doesn't mean a huge deflection of the tip, but a nice concise 'claw' over to make the transition power all the way through to the finish.

I liken it to the spin of a roulette wheel. If you try to whack it into spinning it's not as effective as ramping up the speed with a good firm grip; keeping in mind you are trying to minimize the diameter of the wheel as much as possible.

It may create some disruption to your comfort zone at first, but stick with it and you'll find a tight yet well-formed nose with both legs straight as clotheslines right through to the finish.

2) The second way to treat this is to start with as s-l-o-w a start-up speed as you can and finish fast with a good tight spin (1).

Getting too much overall momentum in the line to early lets the line loose during flight as Moose mentions. You want the leading energy to have to pull the trailing energy along just a little to keep things tight in flight.

If you create enough of a difference between the leading pull and the trailing lag you can stop the rod tip inches from the POA and still get a well formed lazer loop, requiring very little (1) finish spin.

The best is a balance between the above two - just the right amount of each. I'd be happy to show you what I mean at San Francisco.
 

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jus to add a bit to one of Juro's pionts.

"(b) lack of tension in the top half of the loop while in flight"

If a cast has high line speed, power and a tight loop how could it develop a lack of tension? The answer is in the Anchor or grip. If you have even the slightest little squiggles in your leader on the anchor this can cause the lack of tension especially on big power casts. In more moderate powered casts the power is built up slower and the slight wiggles in the anchor get pulled out smoothly before the forward stroke pulls the anchor off of the water.

A few years ago I noticed the same thing in my casts. Little squiggles in the last 3' or so at turn over. It only showed up on my more powerful casts with super high line speed. I was a little mystified that only my very best or longest casts had this little imperfection. For about a year of practice I just stared at my anchor making sure it hit the water perfectly straight and the problem went away. Now if I am fishing and see the little squiggle I know that my anchor wasn't quit right and can smooth it out on the next cast.

I hope this helps.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
continued question...

I just thought of another way of describing the problem. Not sure if it will make any difference on anyone's answer...

The video clip of Mitsuru Kaneko titled "beauty2" on this site shows an extremely powerful wedge shaped loop that actually tightens more and more as it moves towards the target. In these instances I'm experiencing, it tightens so much that the line collides with itself. In fact I'd almost bet his cast ended up close to that, but the video stops halfway through. The video is at "Spey Pages > Speypages Subscriber Forums > Dana Sturn's Speypages Video > longline casting" and is called Beauty2.

(I'm not comparing myself to Mitsuru Kaneko. No way I can cast that far or with that long of belly! He's in a different class than I.)

I don't believe my problem is anchor related becasue I get the same problem when casting a single hander overhead. It only happens when I try an extremely abrupt and very high stop in order to cast an extremely tight loop.

Juro -- Can you please explain... "The top half is moving too fast for the loop and bottom half speed..." I always thought, the bottom half of the loop is already spent. Top half moves, turns the corner on the loop, and is then "dead" waiting to fall to the earth. After I typed that last sentence it dawned on me that its not totally dead since it could be shooting somewhere. And in my case, I believe this is always the case. Is that what you mean? I've never tried to reproduce the problem without shooting.

Also Juro -- "Make sure the cast finishes with a strong tight tip "curl". " Does this mean that I'm probably stopping the rod TOO abruptly? I always heard accelerate to a sudden stop. To me, the more acceleration and the more sudden the stop, the better. Maybe not. Curious what you think.

I can't make it to San Fran. Maybe you could do some vids?

My acceleration is pretty smooth so I don't think that's it. Though its possible on my more powerful casts that I'm introducing some "lack of acceleration" somewhere during the power stroke.

Thanks everyone for your input. I look forward to more. Maybe I'll try to get a video of myself doing this sometime.
 

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Touch More Anchor Maybe?

I have the same problem at times, Rob. My cure is to achieve a little more line stick on the anchor set. There needs to be a little resistance on the top leg so the line does not catch up and pass the bottom leg. The added line stick helps, I think, in adding resistance to the top leg of the loop. As usual, Juro has the "Rest of the Story" nail down. Klem
 
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