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Discussion Starter #1
In July/August I´ll spend 3 weeks in the skeena area for salmon fishing (Chum, Kings). I´ll prefer fishing my spey rod, but I want to buy another rod for back up – I´m still interested in a CND 14´ Expert or Custom.
But I ask me if I should buy a #10 single hander instead of another spey rod, especially for small rivers and creeks.
What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages fishing a spey rod/single hander with heavy sinking lines for big salmon? When do you use a single hander?
Is the CND Expert 14‘, #9/10, the right tool for fishing heavy sinking lines?

Stefan
 

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Mr. Mom
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Congratulations! I have never been fortunate enough to fish that area for Salmon. However I have caught enough big kings to form an opinion. If I were going to get another rod to bring, I wouldn't worry about my spey rod being too long for the water, but too long for the fish!

A heavy spey rod will handle the fish, but for REALLY big salmon (like I said, I don't know what the kings run up there at that time) I personally would pick up a single hand rod, and it wouldn't be a ten. It would be an eleven, or even a twelve. Sounds big, but I'm talking about fish that make you think twice about using the spey rod.

With Companies like TFO making 4 piece saltwater rods for under $200, I would definitely slip a one hand "whomp stick" in the case. Remember you don't have to use it, but if you don't have it, you can't use it.

Once again, I know nothing about the runs you will see, but If they regularly go 35-40 and get above that, I would bring a big single.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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I use a single-hand rod only on small (and I mean creek-size rivers that are only 20 to 30 feet across) or creeks for salmon and steelhead, and even then it is a rather long 11 ft 8/9 single-hand rod because it makes single-hand spey casting easier than the shorter rods. On every other sized river, I use a 2-hander for salmon and steelhead. For kings I would opt for a 10/11 two-hander because it has more power for pulling in the big kings.
 

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chinook

since i started two handing it i've developed an attitude that that's what it WILL BE,two handed ,seems most people choose a ten-12 wt.9ft'r,,,and i'll admit a summer sized steelhead `spey' isn't heavy enough,maybe an overhead type,extreem tippy rod,still, having the rod bent feels GOOD,look for a heavy rating 11-12 or 12 period,but this is an investment in a dedicated heavy fish rod,maybe you better look in the for sale section, i have rods that are fun to fish,rods that are meant to whupass,,,a single would probably be cheaper,and if you already have a two hander that suits you ,,,of course those customs ARE sweet looking and christmas is,,,, :hehe:
 

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This sounds like an application that is custom made for the Thomas & Thomas DH 1212-3, a 12' rod which was designed for 12-weight shooting heads. It will spey with various 10 or 11-weight spey lines or Scandinavian style heads. Plenty of backbone and it is not like fighting a big fish with a bungee cord. Will overhead with heavy heads up to 650 grains, and some spey it with very high-D heads, ( Like the Rio Tungstens.)
 

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Other Options

The Atlantis by CND or one of Bob Meiser's rods might be a great choice too.

If you are talking big Kings you want more than a 9 wt two handed rod to have a fair chance for yourself and the fish.
 

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Kings

Here is what I would suggest:
First, determine how you will be fishing - in other words, from a boat or by wading the river.
Boat = Casting distance is usually not critical in this situation because the boat can be used to put the angler into the most advantageous fishing position. Therefore, the main consideration for the rod will be fish fighting capability. If the Skeena is similar to most northern lattitude Chinook fisheries, wherein the fish most likely to be encountered is in the 18 - 30 pound range, then a 10 weight rod would be the absolute minimum. An 11 or 12 weight would be better.
Wading = Casting distance and presentation (ability to slow the speed of the fly through effective mending) will be of the most primary importance. A doublehanded rod is the preferred choice in this situation because of these factors. However, there will be a price to pay because the longer length of the double will provide a leverage advantage to the fish after one is hooked. I would recommend avoiding any rod longer than 14'. A 13 1/2' rod for a 10 weight line would be ideal, in my experience, but I don't know that such a rod exists. I do believe that there are some 14' 10 weights around. Personally, I used the Sage 9140 THREE piece, which is a very stout 9 weight and it worked quite well, but it is about the lightest rod that I would use or suggest be used for Kings.
If you are conducting this trip through a lodge then I would urge contacting them about whether or not they have "camp rods" to use so that you might be able to avoid purchasing a new, very specialized single hander. Also, I would strongly recommend that if you are going to use a double, that right now - TODAY - you start doing some regularly scheduled exercises to strengthen your forearms and lower back as these are the areas that are going to become fatigued very quickly when fighting Kings on a doublehanded rod. Ocean fresh Chinooks in the 20 to mid 40's weight range, when fought from the beach, will generally take from 20 to 40 PHYSICALLY GRUELING minutes to land, IF you apply maximum pressure to the fish the entire time.
One last suggestion. Find out what flies are recommended and then have those patterns tied up on tubes or Waddington shanks. Rig these flies with high quality short shank SINGLE hooks. This will markedly increase the numbers of fish that you will land compared to flies tied on standard long shanked hooks. Good luck on your trip, you are going to experience one of the ultimate thrills of fishing with a fly!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you

Thanks for your help.
My heaviest rod is a Sage 9126. Riveraddict, it should be comparable with your 9140. But it seems to me that a 14', #9/10, isn´t the best supplement for my trip.
Another option I thougt about is Bob Meisers 10'6 Switch rod. I contacted Bob a longer time ago and he recommended the switch rod 10'6, #9/10. What are your thoughts fishing this rod for chum and kings?
Are Bob Meisers switch rods comparable to the CND Atlantis? Is the Atlantis suited for spey/underhand casting?
Thanks again!
Stefan
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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The Atlantis was not intended for spey casting but I'm sure it spey casts much better than a heavy single hander :)

In fact it just might be a realy nice underhand spey rod for all I know, I've been so focused on testing it for it's intended purpose before old man winter stepped in and ruined the party.

For each cast on the beach I switch cast the line back out from a fully retrieved position and 60-70 feet even with a non-spey line (30ft head) is easy. I can imagine with a Windcutter line you could spey 80-90' and overhand to the backing knot, which should be pretty easy in fact. A Skagit head would overhand like a rocketship.

So given the choice between a single hander and the Atlantis I would persoanlly go 11' 11/12wt with two-hands all the way. All you have to do is cast the big single for an hour and you'll see why I say that.

Reading Ed's experienced and detailed reply I would have to say the rod could very well be awesome for the task. I won't BS that it's a distance spey rod (e.g. Specialist), but I haven't investigated it's potential in that respect, who knows it might be. At 11' and 11/12wt (AFTMA) w/ IM8 graphite and approx 8oz in total weight it's a pretty comfortable rod to fish and it's got guts but it's moderately quick for obvious reasons.

We are currently recovering from a blizzard but I am going to venture into the river to try a few spey lines on it. Curiosity's got me now.

If you have the room to overhand cast and don't want to ruin your shoulder sockets and elbow joints, you might consider packing an Atlantis along for the trip.

If you'd be willing to field test it on locale, provide a review and some pictures, I will make sure there is one waiting for you at the lodge. :smokin:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
rod for king salmon

I don´t fish from a boat, so I think I should go with a short spey.
The T&T is too expensive for me, so it seems to me that the CND Atlantis or Bob Meiser 10'6 switch rod 9/10wt is the best choice for me.
Can anyone compare the CND with the Bob Meiser switch rod?
And it would be great if anyone can tell me more about the spey/underhand casting qualities especially of the CND Atlantis.
Thanks.
Stefan
 

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Take Juro's offer

to test the Atlantis. Bob Meiser might provide a similar offer. Contact him, as he is a sponsor. Look under sponsors at the main site. Also, you might contact Aaron at River Run Angler, also a sponsor, and one with experience fishing Alaska for salmon. I am certain he can give you some good information.

BTW have a great time on the trip. It sounds like a lot of fun.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Until I have time to explore the spey dimensions of the Atlantis I can't comment with earnest on the underhand casting capabilities. I have a suspicion there is a line that will rock on it, but the field tests I did involved 100% saltwater beach casting lines for coastal species in the surf and sound. I can say that it's more than appropriate for fighting kings and chum but the spey casting abilities remain to be sampled.

I agree with Ted, take any offers to try them and discover... that's the beauty of Dana's Speypages, the interaction, the proving ground is right here for the benefit of all who stop by.

I will expore the short head spey capabilities of the Atlantis as soon as I can but Bob's switch rod is a proven spey casting and all-around tool and the testimonials from folks on board will provide plenty of evidence - not to mention that each of his rods is heirloom quality with unmatched aesthetics. If you had to go sight-unseen I'd stick with his time-tested design; if you can afford to experiment, try them all!

So many toys... life is good.
 

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Stefen S

I own several of Bob Meiser's rods. One is his two handed switch rod weight 9-10, which is 10 feet 6 inches long. There aren't many fish on America's West Coast that it can't handle.

He, also, makes an 11/12 weight in that rod, that would handle any fish.

E mail Bob and discuss your goals with him. He will get you the right rod.

http://www.meiserflyrods.com/s2h106-1112.html

Below are the specs for Bob's 11/12 10'6" switch rod:

• Two-handed overhead casts utilizing shooting head systems to 120 ft.
• Single hand overhead casts with conventional lines to 100 ft.
• Two-handed underhand spey casts to 100 ft.
• All fresh and saltwater game fish to 80 plus pounds.
• Floating and multi-tip sinking shooting head systems to 1000 grains.
• Excellent for all surface to deep fresh water presentations.
• Excellent for all surface to medium depth salt water presentations.
• Winter Steelhead, Salmon beyond 50 pounds, Muskies, Monster Pike, Big Stripers, Tarpon, and Barracuda.
• Available in 2 piece only.

If you will be fishing from a boat, he has a little shorter rod in the 9/10 and 10/11. You could probably land your guide with that rod, and it comes in a 4 piece set.
 

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juro said:
The Atlantis was not intended for spey casting but I'm sure it spey casts much better than a heavy single hander :)B]

I personally think that you should have a sig line that indicates that you are marketing this rod and are a representative for the CND line. This in no way takes away from their capabilities or value.
 

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Juro...

Just a thought....An elaboration actually...On your suggestion of sending the rod to Stephans Lodge.

I have friends that own a Lodge on the Skeena, and field rods could be easily transported to them.

Not sure where Stephan will be staying on the Skeena, but if it's in civilization... Arrangemants could be made to then have a field rod shipped from within Canada....Or perhaps even picked up at my friends lodge.

I could do the same, and Stephan would then have the two sticks he's considering for a hands-on try out....I need to get one of the 106 9/10s to my friends Lodge as a camp rod anyways so it's an easy do for me.

And to be honest with you, my friend wants to try out the Atlantis as well...He has cast a few CNDs with clientel last Summer and really likes them, so you've got his attention !

Mail me if you want.

Stephan...Sounds to me like your gonna be getting yourself into some of that fine Kanook Chin-nookie....Good on Ya !

And Ed's right, take your vitamins... A bright King can burn the fuzz right off your peaches!

Meiz
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Sounds awesome Meiz! Better yet howzabout you and I DELIVERING them? :p

Count me in!
 

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Stefan S, bob meiser, juro

Stefan S, welcome to old fashioned American Capitalism blended with the Spey/Two handed Brotherhood.

Bob and Juro, you two are awesome!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
nice offer

Juro and Bob,
thank you for your offers. It would be great to have the opportunity to give two such interesting rods a try side by side. I´m interested in all and everything around spey fishing since I first tried a spey rod.
As a father of a family with two little girls I’ll get off for the 3 weeks next summer and unfortunateley don´t have the money to stay in a lodge. I plan the trip by my own and travel around but it should be no problem to pick up a rod at a lodge anywhere on the skeena.
I´ll contact you by e-mail.
Stefan :smokin:
 

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Stefan,

Very good....I'll be in that neck of the woods myself in late Summer at or near the lodge I spoke of....And hopefully Juro as well.

Stay in touch as to particulars.....It's a small world when it comes to fly fishing !

Good Holidays....Bob Meiser
 
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