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Junkyard Spey
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I don't believe the new standards are going to make anything that much easier when trying to match rods, lines, stature, personal preference, and casting ability. Spey casters want to know the head lengths and the grain weights for same. The simple solution is for the line companies to follow Rio and Snowbee's lead and label the line boxes with the specs and for the rod companies to follow Snowbee's leads and label the rods in like manner.
This simple solution could be implemented in a very short time and I believe would go along ways to solving the mystery for some of matching rods and lines. The spey consumers should be demanding this change from the manufacturers.
As StampSteelie says Rio's/Simon's line recs will get you started with a good match for head lengths and weights. If you want another brand line it's a simple matter to use Peter's line chart to cross reference to another brand.
You can find Peter's Line Chart and the specs for the following lines Airflo, Carron, Hardy, Rio, Royal Wulff, Scientific Angler's, and Snowbee, here:http://www.redshedflyshop.com/shop-index.html
You will also find a lot of line info here: http://www.flyfishusa.com/lines/splines_home.html
http://www.speyshop.com/
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,105 Posts
I don't think the line standards are a bad thing per se. I just don't think they will solve the problem of matching rods and lines for a given spey consumer.

The problem I've been hearing about loud and clear is that a person wants to be able to walk into any shop selling spey tackle and buy a rod plus a spey line of any length and go to the river and cast like a "jedi master". I don't believe this will ever happen however a lot of the people I talk seem to think the "new" spey line standards will solve this problem.

I believe the only way a spey consumer will ever be able to have a sure fit is to take it to the river for a test drive. To me it doesn't matter what the numbers say if it "works for you". No matter how much things are standardized there will always be the short lines (heads), the long bellies,
personal preception, stature, casting ability, and finances to add the X factor.
The last sentence in Sean's last paragraph is a perfect example of what I'm talking about as I know of people that think those lines are matched perfect for the rating and cast like a dream.

My problem with some of the line companies is that they don't seem to want to be forthcoming with the info I believe the spey consumer needs to get a good fit. That is the head length and the grain weight of same. When I ask for these numbers from some of the line companies I'm given the weights for 30' and 34' based on the "new" line standards, which tell me nothing I need to know. I have even been told the spey consumer shouldn't have that info and just trust the manufacturers to sell them the right product. This is nonsense and this thinking is where a lot of the consumer's confusion (and frustation) comes from.

In my opinion Rio is the most progressive line manfacturer out there. To me "they get it". I believe Snowbee also is headed in the right direction. I don't think all the belly info needs to be printed on the rod butt, but it could be printed on a brochure included with the rod. The paperwork already is included with most rods. Instead of talking about how great this product is give the consumer some real info they can actually use.

I know very little about spey line/rod design, nor do I really want to, however if I know the optimal head weight for the rod and the head length and grain weights for the line I believe I can get in the ballpark before a "test drive".
I have been casting Snowbee rods all summer and their system seems to work, at least for me. I do not think the system is perfect but it is a great step in the right direction. At this point everyone else is playing catchup behind Rio and Snowbee. Some rod/line manufacturers are moving forward while some are mired in smoke and mirrors.

Peace and Love from the left bank.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,105 Posts
For the major line manafacturers all the head length and grain weights are readily available.
This is not entierly true. The specs as we know them are available but several of the line companies have changed things around, some quite a bit to comply with the new line standards. Some of these new numbers are not readily available and some of these companies are not planning to make them available at least in any form that is of value to the shops or consumers.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,105 Posts
Well Mike do not be coy Let us know who and maybe the combined voices of the speypages masses can help coerce some info out of these guys. It is worth a try and I agree we should have access to this info.
I really don't need to name any names. Just go to your local fly shop that sells spey tackle and look at the line boxes. For any companies that don't have the info on the boxes look at their websites. If the info is not readily available there then it is my opinion that they don't have the best interest of the spey consumer at heart. They know the data before they ever roll a line so why is it so hard to have it available?

Well those folks are not good casters (I have another word but this is a family program) and will most likely never become good casters. It takes work and not some magic line, rod or standard.
Actually if you go back and read some of the old post you will find that some of the people complaining about the lack of speyline standards are pretty good casters.

Russ, While I agree with you in therory. It almost sounds like you think shop owners should make a prospective customer fill out a lengthly form to prove that they are qualified to buy whatever tackle they think they want. If I am ask my opinion about a customer's ability and the use of a certain line I will tell them what I think but if someone calls and says "I want a long belly" my credo is the customer is always right. I don't think there is a shop owner anywhere that feels differently.

As most or all of the line manufacturers produce lines conforming to the spey line standard that was adopted last fall, consumers will be able to buy any spey line of the same belly length with confidence that it will work on his rod. And as rod manufacturers begin getting 2-hand rods in the pipeline rated according to the spey line standard, a consumer will be able to know any rod rated for a 9 spey line will work with the same lines regardless of line manufacturer, just like it has worked in the songle-hand world for 40 years.
I believe the statment you make above is very optimistic. I also don't believe it will ever come to pass as you envision it because we are all different. The single hand line standards are all fine and good but anyone that thinks they have solved all the problems of matching rods to lines should spend some time reading Dan Blantons board.

I am not against these new standards. I just don't think they should be used in place of giving us the head lengths and grain weights.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,105 Posts
Good post BF. If it takes 10 years it probably won't matter to me as by then I'll need felt soles on the feet of my walker. Hopefully if I'm lucky I'll still be leaning in the door of the Red Shed talking to my friends (that's all of you) about spey rods and chrome.

Russ, Just because someone hasn't passed driver's ed doesn't mean they don't want or wouldn't buy a Lotus or some other high powered car like the ones you like, if they can afford it.

I also agree with Malcom somewhat. I myself can't cast that Carron very good but I don't stop trying. That damned long belly is kinda like looking over the fence at the neighbor lady sunbathing topless. You know it is wrong but you just can't stop. :whoa:
 

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Junkyard Spey
Joined
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7,105 Posts
Hey Cannon...

First I E-mailed the company for the recommended grains and got no answer,then I phoned and they couldn't answer,so then I compared similar rods and came up with 550 grains.I finally got a hold of a rep.,not before making 3 long distance calls over a week
Your experience is the very thing I'm talking about in regards to the specs for lines or rods and the indifference of some rod/line makers in providing same. You could have most likely saved yourself a lot of grief had you consulted Simon's lines recs on Rio's site. At least it would have narrowed the choices down to a heavy load or a light load. It is the first place I look when confronted with a rod I have not lined before.
 
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