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Mr. Mom
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625 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all. I searched this forum, and the web in general and couldn't find any specifics on the formula for the spey-driver. Just picked up a previously loved, or should I say unloved, 8/9 Derek Brown for a song, and would like to play around with some lines. And before anyone asks, yes I had cast one before :hehe: As my wife one said when she looked at me nekkid "Weight doesn't bother me" :eek: . You should see my saltwater setups. Un-ported billy pate tarpons on 10 weights... You don't want to know what my 12 weight weighs :eyecrazy:

P.S. Anybody have a Marquis Salmon 3 lying around? I promise to be nice to it if you let me adopt it...
 

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11,027 Posts
I'm looking forward to the same info.

I've read alot about this 'original' tip launcher; looking forward to seeing how they were put together. Rather suspect they worked far better than my cut down DT's.
fae
 

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Pullin' Thread
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4,694 Posts
I did not like the original version of this rod; however, after the mid-sections were redesigned, I liked the way it cast long-belly lines. I liked the 8/9 GrandSpey (provided you keep the color change in your fingers) or 8/9 XLT on this rod. Some others like the 7/8 GrandSpey on it.

I've cast it with the Airflow Traditional 9/10 and the rod felt overloaded with it. However, with the Airflow Traditional 8/9 it felt underloaded to me. I've also cast it with the 8/9 MidSpey and 8/9 Long Delta. I like the 8/9 MidSpey but not the 8/9 Long Delta on it. I did not like the shorter Windcutter type lines in 8/9/10 on it at all. This rod seems to have been designed for the longer line and really comes into its own with the long-belly lines.

Greenhighlander2 owns this rod; hopefully, he will chime in on what he found works best for him.
 

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loco alto!
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2,979 Posts
flytyer -

a sline question for you that is not specific to this rod. What is your sense of the difference between the Midspey 8/9 and Long Delta 8/9?

the specs are virtually identical - how do they differ as casting tools?
 

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Mr. Mom
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625 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the line recommendations, but...

flytyer said:
I did not like the original version of this rod; however, after the mid-sections were redesigned, I liked the way it cast long-belly lines. I liked the 8/9 GrandSpey (provided you keep the color change in your fingers) or 8/9 XLT on this rod. Some others like the 7/8 GrandSpey on it.
Fortunately for me, I live about 15 mins away from the River Run shop, so I won't have any trouble figuring out what off the shelf lines I like on the rod, thanks to the generosity of Aaron and Jack. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the rod at all, but you know how it is with new toys :devil:

I'm really interested in the Spey-Driver info in general. I have lots of lines gathering dust. It's one of those things that happen when you work in a shop, and are the most stable person in there. You not only end up with a ton of your own lines, but you end up with "Dude, you want this trash bag full of lines? They aren't maked or anything..." How could anyone say no to that!
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,112 Posts
Spey Driver Specs

Philster, If I remember right Dana has the info you seek in one of his newsletters from the first year he published them. Take care, MJC
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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846 Posts
Lines on the rod, I have found the Accelerators to be a favorite of mine for the DBF's.

I throw a 8/9 on the 7/8 DBF (which I own) and a 9/10 on the 8/9 DBF (which I've spent much time on the water with).

Another line I really like on the 7/8 DBF and fished with a bunch is the old TT 8/9 so one would think that the 9/10 TT would be a great choice on the 8/9.
 

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Indicators Anonymous
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846 Posts
loco_alto said:
flytyer -

a sline question for you that is not specific to this rod. What is your sense of the difference between the Midspey 8/9 and Long Delta 8/9?

the specs are virtually identical - how do they differ as casting tools?
I've found, that eventhough the grain weights are listed as indentical to one another, the Midspeys tend to provide more of a load then the Long Deltas (especially on the older Long Deltas).

Take the 9150 for example in which the 8/9 Midspey is a perfect match but in turn, the 8/9 Long Delta seems light (so I step it up to the 9/10).
 

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If you are looking for a Spey Driver type line, save yourself the time of messing around and purchase a XLT. They along with the TT were developed from the theories of Alexander Grant as written in "Fine and Far Off".

andre
 

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chrome-magnon man
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5,375 Posts
clarification

the original Spey-Driver specs were shared with me back in the late 90s by Derek Brown when he helped me build three of them for my Spey rods, but I have never, nor will ever publish them or otherwise use them for my own personal gain. Derek shared this info with me on the understanding that I would not share it without his permission, and I have and will continue to honor that request. The line formula MJC refers to is my Winter Line, which is a long belly line designed for throwing tips. While it is certainly influenced by Derek's thinking and the general Spey-Driver concept, it is not a Spey-Driver. My current extended belly custom line is the Thompson Spey Line, and it is essentially my reworking and modification over a number of years of the original Spey-Driver concept. Certainly there is enough of me in the Thompson Spey Line that I could claim it as my own; however, since I consider it to be a modified Spey-Driver I will not share its formulation, again to honor Derek's request.

Jock Scott discusses Alexander Grant's line concepts on pages 64 - 72 of Fine and Far Off. One glance at Grant's concepts will reveal that virtually all of the modern long belly and extended belly spey lines--Triangle Taper, Accelerator, GrandSpey, XLT, Delta Traditional--owe something to Grant; however, what Scott presented is a line concept, not a formula. The genius of the Spey-Driver was that it was the creative application of Grant's concepts to the modern custom PVC fly line, and was the first functional line of its kind that did with PVC what Grant was looking for in his silk lines.

Derek Brown is the father of the modern extended belly spey line, and he taught or was mentor to many of today's best known spey casters. His influence on us all is immeasurable. The Spey-Driver was truly a line ahead of its time. The Spey-Driver was briefly available from Derek, but he stopped selling it back in '98 I believe. I hope that one day Derek will make these lines available again. Even as expensive custom made tapers, they would be worth every penny.
 

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and , so the question still remains;what is ,or, ie;speydriver,a formula of someones ,i can't remember who,exists in an old issue of a popular fishing mag.puplished in the northwest u.s. ,,,Hmmm seems i saw a copyright or a registered mark ,or was i just imagining that a line exists that can enable someone who has invested a pile of money,time,money,oh,sorry, cast as far as a twenty dollar wal-mart spinning rod can allow anyone off the street to fling a line accross the river!,no i was just imaginning that there WAS a line that would allow unlimited casts without the belly thing,,ya know,i think it was what they used to call a double taper,or WAS it far off and fine,Hmmmmm,,,,,,,,:confused: ,,so, how much for a bag of line dude?????
 

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chrome-magnon man
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5,375 Posts
Hammer,

I think you might be referring to the line discussed by Chris Francis in Volume 1, No. 4 issue of Amato's Steelhead Fly Fishing Journal published in 1994. This line is an early version of what was to become the famous Windcutter.

As far as miracle lines that will allow monster casts, after testing a bazillion spey lines over the years looking for the one that would do it, I've found that the best solution is to practice, practice, practice...

Other than looking really cool and inflating the ego (well, it also got me a bottle of beer delivered to me while I was fishing once), my experience regarding really long casts has been that they are good for one thing: to allow you to cast very consistently to all realistic fishing distances. The ability to cast 80ft with perfect turnover every time so that your fly is fishing the way you want it to the moment it hits the water will catch far more fish than any 140 footer. When I'm on a river I don't want to think about my casting too much--I'm too concerned with the fishing, or that heron that landed down there on that rock, or what's going on in the osprey nest across the river, or watching kush whack out a tight-looped snake roll downstream. I want to look at a spot and have my fly arrive there as a function of thought rather than effort. I keep my long cast chops up so I can better enjoy my fishing, although the casting can be pretty fun, too. :)
 

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Mr. Mom
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625 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
You are right Dana, there is no magic line that makes for monster casts, but my pewter "Pepe Le Pew" pin that I wear on my vest DOES bestow casting prowess on all who wear him!!!!

I understand completely about the sanctity of the promise you made to Mr. Brown.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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7,112 Posts
The line formula MJC refers to is my Winter Line,
Dana,

Actually I wasn't thinking of the Winter Line. I could of sworn you had a newsletter article about the Spey Driver. I was just plain wrong. God, I hate to admit that. I can only plead insanity. I'm sorry if I caused some confusion. I think it is very cool that you are respecting Derek's wishes. Take care, MJC
 

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Character

Dana and all
It is called character. Unfortunately there isn't as much of that around as there used to be. Not long ago a man's word was his bond. You could agree, shake hands and know it was going to get done, without taking the time for a contract that someone would try to get out of, if it was going to cost them money. And most politicians, I won't go there.

Your demonstration of character, Dana, gives me hope that we can get back to character being more important than words.

PS You can get the general drift for the spey driver, by using a micrometer on the XLT and grandspey. Now if Dana will let me borrow one for a few hours, he won't have to say a thing.
 

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Ted, you hit the nail on the head.

"Dana and all
It is called character. Unfortunately there isn't as much of that around as there used to be. Not long ago a man's word was his bond. You could agree, shake hands and know it was going to get done, without taking the time for a contract that someone would try to get out of, if it was going to cost them money."

That was one of the first things that struck me when Joan and I moved to So. Oregon to build our 'old' vineyards. Good intro from a local who was acting as out 'advisor' and we spent several hundred thousands of dollars. Only one transaction actually had a written contract involved. .... and that guy screwed up the deal and ended up eating about $10 grand. (I also 'ate' the $10 grand as I had to go buy another tractor.)

He wasn't pleased to say the least, but 'rumor' has it he was advised to put a cork in it or his long standing business was going to be close to 'toast.'

Actually had a couple of occations where I had to call a contractor and nudge him to send me a bill so I could send him a check. Both cases I was told not to worry about it "we know your good for the money."

That made me feel 'on top of the world.'

A man's word should be his bond.
fae
 

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this thread should be MOVIN,and GROOVIN, folks///////???,hmmm,i'm gonna do some diggin' tomorrow;i've a formula in the pile of mags.,plus Nooksack Mac's on the right track, of course, he's a rod to drive one :hehe:
 
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