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registered text offender
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i think its gotten way out of hand. the fish porn aspect of people having to document every fish, where, when, how... not to mention blabbing on about once little known places, the kind many of us had to discover through years of fishing and exploring.... places suddenly overrun with facebook "anglers" people who's main reason for fishing is to brag on about "their" new favorite river, and show you every fish they caught and worse yet, the videos :roll: you tube is every bit as bad, imo.
i have unfreinded everyone i have found with excessive fishporn, and deleted my inyourfacebook page. seems for many buisnesses its a neccessary evil, but is the excessive fish porn, and hotspotting really needed ? i think the industry people need to step up and set a better example. what more can we do ? how do you feel about this ?
i think things are only going to get worse....
 

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fishporn

I understand how you feel about this.

I guess something that is hard for me to explain is the change from a few years ago (20 or so) to now with the intensity of fishing on the rivers. People have used the term "combat fishing" (but of course if they had had that real experience they would not use the term) and it more or less describes the intensity and anxious attitude of a lot of the people on the rivers today.

I must be an old fart (well...) but I am not sure I see guys actually enjoying their experience and are almost aggressive to the system they should be enjoying in their quest to get the numbers and the photos and videos etc. This attitude attributes to some not so pleasant encounters with competition and drive to get there first, fish hard and fast and get to the next run.

My home river is really something in the summer and fall and it's getting less fun to fish because of what I am trying to describe as intensity of steel heading. I am not sure I am explaining myself but I hope you get the drift so to speak. So my advice is to slow down a bit, do our part to provide some mentoring on manners and etiquette and encourage new fishermen to understand that it's not all about how many hero shots you can put out there.

After saying that, I am sorry to say that I am just in the past couple of years now doing a much better job keeping the fish wet (As the Native Fish Society "Keep 'em Wet" is promoting) and that I have had a few hero shots myself in the past. I am mending my ways now and promoting this a lot with my two Grandsons and others.

In any event, I get your concern there Matuka Mike.
Best
Loren in Bend
 

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yes

the internet has simply magnified the natural and unfortunate human tendency for people to show off to make themselves feel better about who they are.

pre-internet, it was blowhards coming into fly shops talking about how many fish they caught and where, when, with whom, etc.

This very human trait is actually one of the reasons why these services (Facebook, Twitter, etc) have become so popular - because they address the very human need to say "look at me" to the world. The reality is that this aspect of our nature is now embedded in and enabled by our technology.

how can we help? Don't post (or take) fish pictures, don't post river reports, don't ask or answer specific questions about fishing locations, don't post about upcoming trips or past trips on the internet, don't write books or magazine articles. Basically, don't sh*t where you eat. I would argue that all of us who do the above are doing so to serve some egotistical need for recognition or approval from outside of ourselves.

This is increasingly becoming an unpopular position on the internet, but I don't give a damn. Remember, every piece of content or information (or your community) is monetized, and impressions are the key metric...even here.
 

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The Dude abides
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interesting post. I am not a fan of social media. I'm trying to start a farm business. even as a farmer, the question is, "are you on facebook? "

its an interesting dilemma. guides used to get booked without facebook. conservation groups used to be able to hold fundraisers without facebook. life was an entire thing without facebook.

I'm guilty of posting pics of fish and flies, but I'm not one to say where exactly, only that it can be done. I appreciate some sharing because I had never met a steelheader before. Without this website I would not tie classics or swing flies. I'd not know any better i suppose, but my life would be different now.

but I hear the sentiment. My water was a lot more crowded this year.
 

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Lip Ripper
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My pov as a guide on the Rogue is it really doesn't matter. On some smaller streams my opinion would be different. Also, as a trout fisherman I would be hesitant to give up a good spot. As a steelhead fisherman I don't worry about it. The fish are moving through the system so here today, gone tomorrow. With that said I certainly would not provide info on the line or swing I caught the fish on. Time and time again I have watched someone fish a bucket and know when I drop in I can catch a fish. In some of the spots we fish a drift 3' off the line will result in a 0.;)

Honestly, I am just happy to see people on the river fishing. To me that is far better than them sitting in a bar drinking then driving home on the same roads as me.

FWIW, I have never received a booking due to social media.
 

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Been noticing a lot of fish porn on Instagram. Most postings though you cannot tell where the fish was caught unless you know the person and where they usually fish. A lot of flies being posted on Instagram also without tying instructions.;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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The enemy

How does that little jingle go? We have recognized the enemy and the enemy is us?
Social media or technology or whatever you choose to call it- it aint going away. Some are genuinely proud of their efforts to finally catch one of those wily critters with pictures to prove it, on the beach, at arm's length. And so it goes. One can only hope that lessons will be learned through education.
Maybe tomorrow's technology will increase survival rates.
I've always admired those that take detailed notes to recall the best and worst of times. As for me, a day on the river regardless is far better than other options.
 

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Agree,with Matuka Mike,
Social media 'posts and boasts' cause erectile dysfunction.
Years ago I was chided by a fellow angler for asking online about a little known river in my area.... Took that as a lesson learned and never did it again.
Time to include a social media bylaw in the realm of honourable angling etiquette.

Thanks Mike for starting a thread that is past due, I'm in your camp.
 

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seaterspey
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This is a truly dangerous and very touchy subject.

Change is always going to happen without it where would we be now? Change is harder for some then others. Some embrace change with open arms and others do everything possible to ignore the change as if it does not exist.

The fact is Facebook, Youtube, Linkedin, Instagram and the million others such as these are the way people talk and express themselves to others in their circles. We will not be able to change this fact nor would I want to.

The simple truth to this problem is that we need to be more responsible on what, where and when we post information. Be careful about what information you share and where you share it but by all means share your passion and your joy to whomever you want. MZ I do believe that you were shared prime spots and technique on a certain river at one time and you will use this information to your advantage. This is how the sport grows and without growth the money dries up and so does the sport.

We do not own these rivers! These rivers are for us and everyone else that is inclined to fish them for our enjoyment. Let's take advantage of certain rivers becoming more popular by teaching these new people how to respect and take care of what they play in. Let's show them by example that enjoying this freedom comes with a price but with this price comes future enjoyment for us and generations to come.

I could go on and on but I think I have used the internet enough to somewhat make my point. We can't stop change but we can surely help it move in the right direction.

KC
 

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PiscatorNonSolumPiscatur
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Many years ago when fly fishing popularity took a big upswing and there were a larger number of fly fishing magazines I lamented how writers publicized many little known streams and provided all the pertinent facts on how and when to fish them.
I also remember when cell phones became popular on the river and seeing fishermen make a phone call after making a hook up and within minutes here would come a sled or two wanting to get in on the action.
Social media is an extension of the same.
How far can this go? This age of instant information is peaking in it's newness and perhaps all this will slow down because it's not so novel anymore.
At least that is my hope.
 

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When I read through this thread two things come to mind.

That those of us who are old enough to have started fly fishing when it was "catch and keep" learned quickly to keep our mouths' shut and to be selective with whom we shared information about methods and locations. I'll never get over that mind set, no matter how much I hear the truly ironic "there are no secret spots" from those who have grown up posting everything that happens to them on Facebook.

And (a bit of a digression) how the machinations of big marketing have succeeded at turning just about every worthwhile recreation and pastime into a business, into a "lifestyle". At the risk of offending folks on this website, how many spey rods does a person need, really? SUV's plastered with with "Fear No Fish" and "Sage" decals?? On one level, it seems fun and harmless, whatever it takes to get folks "on the team" and buying more stuff, and on another level it's pure cynical manipulation. It's partly this investment in "stuff" rather than in the enjoyment of the activity that feeds into the craziness and the lack of perspective that I seem to run into more and more on the rivers.

And then there's the fish itself, the steelhead. Oh, wait. That's three things.
 

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I find it just a little ironic that there is lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth about social media.....on a social media platform.

I have no way of knowing, but I wonder how much intensity / pressure/ overuse or whatever term one wishes to apply wouldn't be happening without the internet and its minor variants like Twitter. I think a fair number - too many, even, by some standards - of people would still be found on steelhead rivers and just as many of them would be posing with fish. Fish porn existed long before the digital camera and Facebook. I would also posit that we are still evolving as an angling community with respect to how we manage our impact on the resource. 50 years ago, there was virtually no C and R. Ten years ago, there were few people talking about the importance of not taking a fish out of the water, even for a quick photo. Sure, there will ALWAYS be slobs, but there are also a growing number of reasonable people who are doing things the right way and helping the rest of us to see the light.

Lastly, I'd like to put in a plug for social media like Speypages. I can't overstate the value of the gifts provided by members of this community. I have progressed as a caster, angler, fly tier, and conservationist because of what has been shared on this board. I have discreetly asked for location information and been more than willing to provide it, because I have the utmost respect for the character of the people who seem to frequent these pages. When I have received such information, I have tried to practice high standards of etiquette and "leave no trace" angling. I have no reason to doubt that those to whom I have given information have done and will do the same. Perhaps I am naive, but I will continue to share and ask because I don't want to be part of a community where suspicion dilutes the content of the discourse to the point where it is no longer meaningful. There are too many sites out there already where I can get that.
 

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Dedicated Fisherman
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Hi Mike,

Me, I never had a Facebook. I feel your pain. It would be very hard to determine where I fish by reading my posts or looking at the website. I have mentioned here that I was in Oregon last November and did name 2 rivers I fished in but other than that I don't recall the last time I gave up the name of a river I fish in. I don't tell anyone what destination rivers I use here until we are actually discussing booking a rip and I don't guide people who live in this area. I learned way back in 1973 to keep my mouth shut and have maintained the same standards for fishing intel that some government agencies use. If questioned about where I fish I, deny deny deny and then make false accusations or provide false information.

I wrote a short article about how I learned to tell No One, and will post it here in the General Discussion threads.

Loose Lips Sink Ships,

Ard
 

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PiscatorNonSolumPiscatur
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I think the real lament here is not about social media, it's about the overcrowding of rivers and decline of fisheries.
 

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seaterspey
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It's funny because of all the rivers that I have fished on the west coast they don't seem to come close to overcrowding, maybe I've been lucky in that respect? Coming from the East coast where I would generally stay away from certain rivers at certain times do to overcrowding.

I would be interested in hearing from some people out east on what they think? Most of my experiences of fishing west coast rivers has been a pleasure.

Again as someone already said the instant age is here and it's not going away.
 

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I find it just a little ironic that there is lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth about social media.....on a social media platform.
Aldo, it's not this self-critique by a community with common values and interests that's ironic. What's ironic is naively facilitating the damage and the compromise of what's basic to those interests and values. Are we about rivers and fish or something else?

I agree with you that the problem started long before social media--the term "fish porn" has been around since what, the '70's? I don't see things getting better than by any other means except individuals who think twice before they post up or tail-gate each other on access roads heading for the river at 4 am.
 

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Irony?

I consider the discussion to be an important one.
I know a number of folks who chase gold like we chase trout and 'steel'.
It is fair to discuss equipment, techniques, politics, regulations etc on social media.
It is not OK to say, ' there is gold on XYZ creek and tell the world about it.
If one wants to really tread lightly, keep the hero shots from the prime spots to ones self.
I live near a productive trout lake with large fish. It never had much pressure, along comes the internet and within a couple years the lake explodes with interest. The lake is about 30 acres in size and with the ice off in 2 weeks there will be at least 30-40 campers from Wa. set up for a month. Nothing against Wa.,( I have family there) but this lake got dog piled upon.
That's the work of the web, not word of mouth.

I do however think that a social media site is a good place to have discussions about posting responsibly. No irony there.
 

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couldn't agree more

rynchus has it perfectly...

"It is fair [and prudent] to discuss equipment, techniques, politics, regulations etc on social media.
It is not OK to say, ' there is gold on XYZ creek and tell the world about it.
If one wants to really tread lightly, keep the hero shots from the prime spots to ones self."

that's not irony, that's common sense.
 
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