Yeah, I've said it myself on occasion. By way of checking I took my new 14' St Croix Imperial, lined with a 9/10 mid-spey, out to the Stave this morning. I took careful note of how much line I had out on the average cast. When I got back home I measured it. The average "clean cast" was between seventy and eighty feet. The very odd one may have gone ninety, but anything over that I could not get my sink leader to turn over. If there are "average casters" out there, not spey gurus, who regularly cast 100 or 120ft please tell me the secret. I've been spey casting for the last four years and feel a serious need to improve my game.
Sink tip My contention would be that thoes fish that come off after a short fight would have come off anyway. Thoes grabs where nothing happens I believe (after this years experiences) would not hook up even with the sharpest hook in the world.
This years experiment is far from over but do far on the year I am 6 for 7. This year I am using only cheapo mustad hooks. the only fish I have lost so far was on a tiemco. My preliminary opinion so far is that the weight of the fish is what sets the hook and the sharpness of the hook or the amount of hookset is irrelevant. Every grab I have had this year has hooked up solid with these mustads in sizes from 1/0-8. all straight out of the box unsharpened and debarbed. Just my opinion
Being one of those who "claims" to be able to throw a single hand rod in excess of 100', I can tell you some of the most common problems that hinder long casts. In the process I can tell you that it will make casting 70-80 very easy. The common errors are as follows.
You have to make a good back cast!!!! The foward cast takes care of itself.
1. Start with the line tight, and rod tip low. All slack must be removed before you can load the rod.
2. I assume you can double haul.
3. Long smooth acceleration to a stop. Dont "bang" it, that's a sure tailing loop on the back cast, and it's a done deal then.
4. Absorb the tip "dip" (forgive my terms) with a soft cusion of your palm. This keeps the tip/line headed in the correct direction in lieu of at the ground. It also helps deal with "nervous line".
5. Drift.......... this one is the real deal........If you don't know how to make a drift you need to learn. The drift and extended haul are what remove slack for the foward cast. A "drift" is the extension of the rod after the "stop". You can drift with an overhead spey rod just as easily. After the stop you extend your hands slightly and the rod goes more to the horizontal. A drift in the foward cast while false casting looks like pointing the rod at the target and extending the elbow.
If I made a stop motion MPEG video of someone making a 100' cast, with a cheap IM6, single hand rod, would any of you watch it? If so I'll make one this weekend.
We may well be debating the unprovable here. I would certainly take the 6 for 7 average anyday. I do agree with you on summer fish and hooksets being not as important. For winter fish I am not convinced though.
First, I have had some scary soft cold water takes where there was no weight to the fish until I stung it with the hookset. I have to believe that some of these would simply be spit back out without a hookset and on some I would never even know a fish was there. I'm just glad that I don't know how many times this happens without me knowing it
You are no doubt right that some fish would come free no matter what. I can almost tell you which fish will though before they do and those are fish that hit and run hot right off the bat. These are the fish that I never get a hookset on becasue I tend to wait until they stop before I lean hard into them. Of course I do this so as not to break them off but in waiting, I can almost be sure that I will only keep half on long enough to set the hook. Once I get to that stage, I believe my chances of bringing them to hand goes way up. Not science but it works for me.
I still tend to fish traditional long shanked, up-eyed hooks and I fully believe these are not as effective as short shanked hooks and tube flies. Agree also that the Bartleet 10/1 and AJ speys, while they make a beautiful fly, are not worth a damn for holding fish. I lost a very large winter run this past February after playing it, or it playing me, for near 20 minutes. When I was telling the story to one of the old time legends one morning over coffee, he asked what hook I was using. When I replied a 1/0 Bartleet 10/1 he leaned over and playfully slapped my face while telling me it served me right if that was what hook I was using. But they do tie such a pretty spey style fly
I've caught fish on long cast and on short cast. If I can get the presentation I desire with a long cast I will go there first as it allows me to fish the fly slower. Additionally the slack in the line can grant the fish the time required to turn on the fly. I'll agree the slap n grab steelhead are the hardest to get t the beach.
Hi John: I dont think thequestion is "can you cast 100 ' ? " but rather how effective is a 100 'cast and how frequently do you need to cast 100' to catch your share of fish.
I suspect most of us certainly those who have like me been flyfishing for 70 plus years can cast 100 feet with either a single or double handed rod but do we really need to.
Most people casting 100 feet with a single hander are fishing shooting heads .You can cast 100 ' but you sure as hell cant mend line properly with a light running line.
The same applies with a double hander unless you happen to be fishing a 120' double taper,or a 90'long belly spey line.
So whats the point in casting 100 ' if you cant mend line. unless of course you are fishing still water.
I hope I am not coming across as saying my way is the right way and the only right way. I think a lot of it may also have to do with the way each one of us presents a fly and maybe enev how a certain strain or individual steelhead takes the fly. I tend to swing my flys with a fair amount of downstream belly. consequently I never feel the fish actually take. Usually there is just all of a sudden a fish on the end of my line. Like you say we are debating something that cannot be put into a scientific formula. All that really matters is that we each enjoy our own sport. and that we do it without an indicator
You had me second guessing myself there for a second so I went back and read the post again. His question was pretty well "How do I cast 100 feet?" I'm not sure he's concerned about fishing it. I catch 99% of the fish I go after within 50 feet of my toes. Being able to cast at distance shows "general" line and rod control. I think most of us agree that casting has just about as much to do with fly fishing as does fly tying or rod building. You don't "have" to have that skill but it sure can add to the general experience if you can. We went inland striper fishing yesterday. The wind was howling and the stripers were pushing chad along a sand bar. the boil would rise anywhere from 50' to 200' away from us. Granted I was using a shooting head with amnesia line but having some casting skill certianly made the afternoon much more pleasurable for me.
Hi John I`m glad to hear that you too have Amnesia. Iv`e had it for so long that i dont remember when I started fishing.
I`ll be the first to agree that fishing wouldent be the same unless we engaged in all the skills associated with it. rod building ( I`ve lost count of the numbers I have built) fly tying and yes ;studying and trying to perfect all manner of casting skills , are all part of the total fishing experience. Fishing is more than a sport ;it`s a way of life.
I whole heartedly agree with you on the difference between casting 100+ fish and fishing the same cast effectively. On stillwater there is no problem with fishing 100+ effectively with a single hand rod and shootinghead, running water is a different story.
When I lived in Pennsylvania, I used to fish the Susquahanna areoun Berwick, Bloomsberg, Sunbury, and Harrisburg (all in Pennsylvania) along with the mainstem Deleware around Callicoon, NY, and these two rivers are rather large to say the least. I began using shooting heads back then (the 1970's) to be able to make casts over 100 feet with a single hand 6 weight. Great fun to cast that far, but fishing the fly effectively, unless it was a streamer that was retreived nearly from the moment of the cast landing, was an entirely different story.
On bass ponds or pickerel lakes, the long cast was wonderful becaue I could cover more water with a single cast and control it as well. This was on still water and it didn't take me too many years to realize that really long casts in the reivers mentioned above were not needed, even though they were great fun to make. The moving water made it difficult to control the fly unless it was one of those very rare runs or pools that were of nearly uniform current from bank to bank simply because the shooting line (I used Stren Gold 20# test) couldn't be mended.
And as been said, 2-handers are no different unless you are casting a long belly or double taper line in most runs on most rivers.
My father has never learned to cast beyond 45 feet or so and until I was in my twenties, he sonsistently caught more fish than I with my casts out yonder. I have learned that the length of the cast for effective fishing is totally dependent upon whether you can place yur fly and mend the line to get a good presentation. Otherewise, the cast is wasted adn all you are likely to get from a day fishing is excercise.
So it brings us back to one of the benefits of the XTL - it allows relatively long casts that can be effectivley controlled under certain water conditions. I can think of a number of steelhead runs that if you can cast 100 feet you could effectively control the fly. To have that skill is certainly a plus!
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