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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive been using slick shooter all summer and like it. However the aqualux 12wt at the junction began to break and i want to re-splice. (i actually pulled my splice apart thinking the aqualux would break, but the splice failed instead)

My original splice consisted of 2.5" overlap, nail knots, and softex glue. I sanded the SS and hit the end with a lighter to make a little bulb to help hold it.

There must be a better way. messing around last night, i tied an albright to the ss, but not sure how strong it is, and don't really want 2 joints where i need one.

I know there is another thread on this topic , but couldn't find it.

help! - Jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks chris

In that thread, brian is using a fly line having a dacron core. I am using an outbound aqualux that has a tiny, smooth, mono core.
I set the line up for this weekend using an albright to 50lb power pro (doubled, then double overhand loop).

It's bulkier than i like and too many pieces.

I also tied perfection and double overhand loops with the SS to test them out. They had very low break strength. snapped like bad fluoro.

jay
 

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Attaching Slick Shooter to backing and heads

The method I have been using is quite strong and is very smooth through the guides. First off you need 80 lb hollow braided dacron (Cortland Greenspot trolling line for ex.) You can make the connections looped by double blind splicing the dacron at the ends, or connect the dacron directly to the head in a more permanent fashion. Using these splices as 80 lb dacron loop-to-loop connections is smoother than any "factory" welded loop I have seen.

First, To attach the dacron to the slick shooter simply make an albright knot at the end of the SS, using tying thread to whip around the doubled over SS. Trim yor tags neatly and coat the knot with CA glue and let dry. This knot will form the anchor that holds the SS inside the dacron. Carefully thread the SS into the core of the dacron about 3-4 inches. To anchor the SS simply tie a nail knot around the dacron/SS with 20lb dacron backing. Leave the knot slightly loose at first so you can adjust the position of the SS anchor knot and pull it tight against the nail knot. Trim back the excess 80 lb dacron that protrudes beyond the nail knot (reel side), and coat the knots with aquaseal etc. making sure to smush it into the dacron around the SS anchor knot.

Now, you can either loop the dacron at the head end for interchangeable heads, or, before you coat the knot in aquaseal (last step above) insert the flyline into the hollow dacron braid until it butts up against the SS anchor knot (4-6 inches). Make sure to pull the braid tight around the flyline, and use a couple of 6-8 turn nail knots to anchor it. Trim the excess and coat the splice with aquaseal, making sure it oozes completely into the connections.

I have also used a similar technique for adding 80 lb loops to my backing. This is extremely useful when using gelspun/spectra backing and results in dramaticly stronger connections and no cutting of the line. Do a web search for "spectra rigging NZ kite" to find pictures of the spectra anchor knot and a full explanation.

These methods take a little longer but they are "Bomb Proof"!!

Best Regards,
Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This is what i did

Before reading bill's post, I tried the following:

- Slip hollow dacron over SS.
- doubled 50lb power pro albright to SS + aquaseal.
- power pro nail knot to fly line.
- slide hollow dacron over everything.
- nail knots over hollow dacron at each end, pushed up against albright on SS side.

After doing this i noticed something bad about the albright connection. even though it's doubled over, the power-pro albright cuts thru the SS like butter (7lb pressure). this test was without using aquaseal.

Bill, im confused, what are you using to tie the albright with ?
 

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Albright anchor knot cut by GSP

JPeter, you are correct, Spectra cuts through everything and gives very poor knot strength when tied in conventional knots. The albright knot is not tied with gsp, not load bearing, and is not attached to anything directly, except for the SS it is tied from. The SS is doubled over, and tying thread/12 lb dacron is used to form the whips of the albright (what is usually the smaller diameter line). You then cut away the tags of tying thread, leaving an albright knot that forms a stub at the end of the line. It is this knob/knot that is anchored inside the dacron with a knail knot. The gsp/spectra backing is not tied to the SS at any point due to the issues of line-cutting. I have dacron loops at both ends of the SS as well as on the end of my gsp backing where it connects to the SS. The gsp backing is anchored to the 80 lb dacron using the method reffered to on the website in my first post. (Websearch "spectra rigging kite NZ")
 

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Maxg

, a Board member, has a great coaxial system using braided mono to make a loop in the GSP. He fishes for the big saltwater stuff, from Down Under, so it works great for our smaller fish. He sent me a nice photo of the process. It is relatively easy to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
finally

Re-rigged using Bill's technique. Found some 30lb dacron to make the albrights with. After casting my stock windcutter last night, im ready for some distance and less tangles again!

One question, My SS line is yellow, is that 50lb or 35lb test? Rio doesn't seem to have any info on it at their site. If what i have is the 50, im not sure i would want to spey with it as it slips thru my fingers sometimes when i don't want it to. If what i have is 30, then the 50 might be ok. The rod i use this line on now is mostly used overhead, but wouldn't mind switching the spey rod over.

JP
 

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jpeter said:
Re-rigged using Bill's technique. Found some 30lb dacron to make the albrights with. After casting my stock windcutter last night, im ready for some distance and less tangles again!

One question, My SS line is yellow, is that 50lb or 35lb test? Rio doesn't seem to have any info on it at their site. If what i have is the 50, im not sure i would want to spey with it as it slips thru my fingers sometimes when i don't want it to. If what i have is 30, then the 50 might be ok. The rod i use this line on now is mostly used overhead, but wouldn't mind switching the spey rod over.

JP
The 50 lb. is yellow, while the 35 lb. is chartreuse, so it's probably the 50 you have. It's definitely slick, and a little tough to keep from slipping while casting. I find trapping it with both my upper and lower hands takes care of the problem, though. Once stretched a bit, it is simply amazing how nice this stuff handles. Hard to believe it's mono.

As for rigging it: I had mine set up by Brian Niska @ Whistler Flyfishing. He forms a loop by doubling the SS, and nail knots it twice with 20 lb Maxima Ultragreen. You really have to cinch down the knot with a couple pairs of pliers (or your teeth like I do... not recommended), so that the Maxima bites into the SS. Works really well, and the best part is you can easily make the junction in the field with stuff you'd be carrying anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Lost my shooting head

Snagged a rock on the bottom last night, pulled till the line broke. Lost the shooting head; loop on the 50lb slik shooter failed. I was using 20lb tippet. Connection was made using the albright knot with the braided line (loop) over it. it appears that the slick shooter broke where it changes direction at the albright. Very frustrating, I love how it casts, but need a reliable system. Might try the maxima nail knot loop next.

jp
 

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jp,

If your head was snagged - not just the leader - it is no surprise that the Slickshooter broke. I don't think one could expect it to be stronger than the fly line... even if it was - you'd end up with part of a shooting head :mad:

I don't think you need to look for a more "reliable" system - I think you simply had the bad luck of wrapping your SH around that rock.... and any joint system would have failed.
 

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Could be

the problem was the 20# tippet. If that is Maxima, you are getting close to the breaking strength of some fly lines. Why not use 15#, then it is a fly and not more. If the shooting head wraps a rock, as Kush pointed out, it is just bad luck and you lost one, unless you swim to untangle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quite sure i hooked the bottom

Area i was fishing was salt water, slow tidal current, pretty smooth bottom. Some rocks down there, line was pretty straight coming in. I use 20lb tippet at night (fish are bigger, more mistakes are made in the dark).
Striped bass i'm fishing for are running 25 to 40"+, so i don't feel the 20 lb is overkill.
What bothers me is the part that broke was the 50lb shooter. Assuming the hook was snagged, my tippet knot should have broke at 18 LBs max. (it was fluoro, used cause it was in my bag, not trying to be stealthy at night)
Will try a new splice again on a scrap piece and measure the break strength.

jp
 

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My 2 cents...

...using leaders that have an actual break strength of 20 pounds or more is pretty much asking to at some point lose a flyline. It's just too close to the core strength of many flylines. Believe me, I have personally gone through experiencing the results of this too many times. In the case of Maxima, the fact is that 20 pound rated leader actually tests at something like 25+ pounds.

My solution has been to never use any leader testing more than 16 pounds. This leaves a "safety margin" of break strength between the leader and flyline. I have tested this approach many years in Alaska on fresh-from-the-ocean Kings with great success. Believe it or not, it is very rare for an angler to exert more than 6 pounds of pressure onto a rod when fighting a fish. The reasons for using leaders testing higher than 6 pounds has to do with providing a "margin of error" for abrasion, niks in the line, and shock, and for some anglers, to counter the effects of "windknots". 14 to 16 pound test leader provides these benefits without the risk of breaking one's flyline. One thing to note about this though - I am talking "standard" mono's here, not the ultra small diameter to strength ratio stuff, which because of its smaller diameter does not offer the same resistance to knick related breakage.
 

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Exactly where did the line break?

Hi JPeter,
I am very interested in exactly where the line broke. I have yet to have a similar seperation and have straightened out a hook or two on snags without a break. Is the SS seperating at a point where the albright's overwraps are. Or is it the part of line just above the albright where the braid is locked down using a nail knot? When pulled to tension and then broken, many lines will curly-Q a bit. If the albright jam knot collapsed under tension and sheared itself I would question what glue you are using on the knot to defeat slipage. Or maybe use mono as opposed to dacron as the line used to tie the albright overwraps. Under tension dacron can stretch and become thinner/sharper, effectively sawing the line.

I will take a look at the problem later and see if I can figure a way to relieve any shear forces on the SS where the albright is formed. Too bad SS ties such a crappy bimini-twist, that would make things much easier.

Best Regards,
Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
break point

seemed to be where the ss does a 180 deg turn. Pretty much where it would break if you were pulling on the albrite at full strength. It bothers me how easilly the dacron cuts thru the ss if you pull hard on the albrite.

I agree with you riveraddict that 15lb should suffice (especially on a sandy bottom), except that the larger striped bass often head rigt into the rocks, so the abrasion resistance and strength helps. If the fish starts heading toward something bad, you need to really muscle it.

latest splice held up to a 30"fish last night, so far so good.

I overkilled te last connection by using the nail knots on the ss with the albrite. Will figure out something better by next year.
 
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