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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those interested in our [Pauli, Christensen, Keelin] Skagit Spey line test program conducted during 2005-2006, see resullts published as "Skagit Magic" in the GGACC Bulletin, June 2006.

http://www.ggacc.org/docs/Sites/1/Bulletin-2006-06.pdf

The follow-on article on how to effectively use this information will be published in the next GGACC Bulletin titled "Harnessing the Magic."
 

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Great Work and this will be landmark and benchmark article

Bob Pauli said:
For those interested in our [Pauli, Christensen, Keelin] Skagit Spey line test program conducted during 2005-2006, see resullts published as "Skagit Magic" in the GGACC Bulletin, June 2006.

http://www.ggacc.org/docs/Sites/1/Bulletin-2006-06.pdf

The follow-on article on how to effectively use this information will be published in the next GGACC Bulletin titled "Harnessing the Magic."
Bob, thanks for posting this. Incredible work by the 3 of you.

The data on the Sage 7136 :roll: is why my 7136 hasn't been put up for sale.

Was that my Sage TCR 9129-4, in the article?

Throughout the article I was laughing. Last night my trophy bride and I watched a MidSommer Murder show on Biography. It was about a Brit fishing stream/fly club and the hatred between those who used sinking flies versus the purists with floating flies. The guy who killed the woman fly fisher in the show, tolerated her lying to him and her infidelity. However, when she killed a :saeek: trophy trout, he killed her. My wife believed that the woman who was killed also used a sinking fly.

Throughout the show, I chuckled about how the Skagit guys :tsk_tsk: like you are held in contempt by the purists. Jeann said that it is good thing you don't live in the UK with your Skagit lines, sinking tips and sinking flies.
 

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JD
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Great Article Bob

Thanks. Looking forward to harnessing the Magic. (7136 noodle,,,,whoda' thunk?):hihi:
 

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Hello Bob.
Great article. I have the Burkie 9143-3 & Sage 6126-3, so I was very interested in the write up.
Haven't really tried Skagit casting but am very interested in it.
Cheers.
 

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JD try a Skagit with the 7136 noodle for a pleasant surprise.

JDJones said:
Thaanks. Looking forward to harnessing the Magic. (7136 noodle,,,,whoda' thunk?):hihi:
It works very well with the Skagit 550 and the 15' Rio 7/8 floating tip and a 15' Rio Steelhead leader and no need for cheaters with me.
 

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Wow...a Skagit thread without...

Wow...a Skagit thread without...animosity or debate. Strange.
Anyway...
Thanks for the info.
I do have a Big Boy question b/c I have not liked casting them a WC 9/10/11:
What is the true fishing depth of a Big Boy 300? I started fishing "the T-$#!*" in different lengths with cheaters b/c of the smiplicity of +/-10' of T stuff plus a +/-5' cheater maintaned a constant my length of a WC so my cast does not have to be altered. This is a very simple way to change your tip and to think in "ips" sink times.
W/o doing the math, I would guess that a Rio Skagit (27.5'?) + 24' Big Boy would put one darn near close the WC line and a 15'?. Sounds like fun to me.
OK...I did the math and it's only 3' shorter...
 

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Skagit lines: a stranger in a strange land

I've finally put my toe into this brave new world, having tried a T&T 1409 with a Skagit head and sink tips briefly, and being impressed by the ease of casting it to moderate distances. Yesterday I spent the morning on the Skagit river, testing a new 650 grain Rio Skagit line with a variety of rods.
I'd made up a set of 5' and 10' Cheaters, weighing 66 and 121 grains including braided loops, from a $2 DT10F. (Does that make them cheatin' Cheaters?:chuckle: ) Most were paired with an eleven-foot, 205 grain section of T-30 leadcore.
I started with a slow G. Loomis 15-foot 10/11 and a barbell eyed Double Bunny on tandem 1/0 hooks that can frighten small children. The rod handled it all with the 10-foot Cheater, but was better with the five-footer. A 15-foot, 9/10 Bruce & Walker very slow action worked well with the 5' cheater and a smaller weighted fly. The same rigging performed better on my Sage 9150; its faster action moved the assemblage in lively fashion. My Sage brownie 9140-4 handled the same rigging well, but was better without either Cheater. I then switched to a 15-foot, 121 grain intermediate mono
tip, which seemed a perfect balance on the 9140.
Finally, with care and trepidation, I tried the same cheaterless combo with the 121-grain tip on my 13' 4" Solstice. Precious handled it with no sign of strain! (Cue the "Twilight Zone" theme music.) Perhaps a 550-grain Skagit and short Cheater would be an optimum length and balance. But really, I'd be hard-pressed to justify another Skagit head at this point. Truely, a go-anywhere line.
I used the same amount of Skagit line, later measured at 63 feet, with all rods. I was learning, so not trying for extended casts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
How deep a tip fishes

Speybstrd,
How deep a tip fishes is a good question, one that depends on many variables. For example the water velocity in a river is slower at the surface and the bottom compared to mid-depth due to drag effects of air and stones. [Thank you Mark for that education.]

However we did drag and depth tests at measured velocities through the still ponds of the GGACC for sink tips looped to Skagit and WindCutter bodies. Tom Keelin correlated the physical test results with his mathematical model and published the "Depth Guide for Sink Tips" chart and made it available at Spey-O-Rama 2006.

The model is based on constant water velocity, and is a good guide to sink tip selection.

Attached to a Skagit head or WindCutter body the BigBoy 300 [with a 3 foot leader and unweighted fly will fish approximately 3.5 feet deep in water with a velocity of 3 miles/hour [4.5 feet/sec, 1.3 meters/sec]. For water at half the velocity, double the depth. 21 feet of T14 will fish the same depth.
 

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Thanks for the info...

Thanks for the info. Bob.
...but another question(s) arises...MPH=how many CFS?
I guess if a 24' and 300gr BB = 21' of T-14 I have a comparable sink rate/depth. What r the advantages of 21' of T-$#!t vs 24' of 300gr BB?
Where would one find the "Depth Guide for Sink Tips" chart/graph?
Do BB's cast easier than T-$#!t?
Thanks for all of the previous info. and all future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Questions Answered

Jon,
To determine CFS flow in a river one would multiply the cross-sectional area of particular location in a river by the average water velocity at that location.

Re BB300 vs. 21' of T14, there is not a significant advantage of one over the other other. The three foot shorter T14 will be a bit easier to cast, while the BB's front taper will aid turnover.

Because of a commitment by a major fly fishing magazine, Tom ceased distribution of the depth guide card until after publication date.

Equivalent fishing depth T14 is easier to cast than the BigBoy 400 and BigBoy 500. Remember that BigBoys have front tapers that aid turnover.

Bob
 

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Thanks for the Big Boy ideas..

Thanks for the info. on the B.Boy setup with skagit lines. I fished a 300gr and then a 250gr the other day on my T&T 1409 with a 650gr skagit head, and I really like the length and the shooting abillity. I think this will be my new heavy tip combo. I really like the fact that it puts the head in the same range as a windcutter with a 15' tip, so my stroke can be the same for both lines. The only thing I did not like was that it was very hard to get the 300gr out of the water w/o a rollcast to set it up first. The 250gr came out of the water without a problem.

So, here's another Big Boy vs T-14 question-
Do you think that it is easier to cast big flies with T-14 or a Big Boy? My first impression is that T-14 has the advantage, but that is only from casting the Big Boys for one day. I have been messing around with T-14 for over a year now and it seems to turnover flies with ease. The taper on the BB seems to have a hard time rolling over something with big lead eyes.
Now, I should confess that some of my tube flies are the size of a house cat, but with 10' of T-14 I have no issues :saeek:
Thanks again for all of the info.
The darkside of shortbellies is pulling strong...my the force be with you all!!!
 
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