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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for opinions on the appropriate skagit line for this rod. Simon's site says 550 grains, but I know quite a few guys have fished 650 grains. What are people's opinions.

I know Bob Pauli has done a lot of testing with skagit lines; if you see this Bob please share.

Gillie
 

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I recommend the Rio 650 Skagit because it will enable you to cast BigBoy 24' tips, as well as the "small stuff."

The 550 is acceptable if your max heavy sink tip is a 200-grain, 15-foot, type-8 [tip 1 from a WindCutter 11.12.13], or 15-feet of T-14 [210 grains].

For a floating line, use a 15-foot 150- or 129-grain tip [from WC9.10.11 or WC8.9.10]. A 5-foot floating Rio Cheater is optional for this setup--purely your preference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Bob,
Thanks for the recc. I have been fishing the 650 and that actually came at the recc of Scott O'Donnell. It has been a great set up, but recently I've had 1 or 2 people tell me that it was way too much line for the rod. Nice to get some additional confirmation.

I haven't tried it with the Bigboys yet but might have to .

Gillie
 

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Gillie,
The BB300 is a must for every Skagit caster's quiver. The line has two great qualities: first, it shoots like a rifle with terrific turnover, and second, it sinks like, uh tungsten, and catches the bigguns.

The rod will handle a Skagit 750 plus BigBoys if you want to play, but the 650 will cast the BBs farther.

The use of these 27' Rio Skagit heads is not intuititve. Therefore you will get sincere, well meaning advice from folks that have not used them, and do not realize the operative word is 'effortless' on the forward stroke.

One aspect of the genius of the PNW guides that developed the Skagit system is the 3.0 to 3.5 ratio of head+tip length to rod length. Below 3.0 the anchor is easily torn out, above 3.5 'effortless' diminishes to 'umph.'
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bob,
The BB300 is listed on the Rio site as 7.3 - 7.8 sink rate. I guess part of the reason I haven't played with them is that I haven't understood the benefit of them over the 15' type 8.
What do you find different / useful about the BB ?

Gillie
 

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The BB300 is a must for every Skagit caster's quiver.
Bob,

Please explain as for steelhead I have never found a need for more than 10-12' of either T-14 or DWE.

'tip
 

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Sinktip,
Three of the last four years on the Kispiox required use of BB400 and BB500 24' tips. I am packing now for this year's adventure in Smithers and would not leave home without the BigBoys.

In April this year on Alaska's Situk River, I fished a full day with the BB500 to get down to the bigguns, which we could see. It was preferable to using plastic beads and shot the size of one's thumbnail. And with Rio's Skagit heads, was done without fatigue.

The BB300 matches Teeny's popular T300--a legendary steelhead line for good reason.

It is my respectful opinion that folks using 'minor' tips are fortunate enough to fish situations that allow them to edit water, meaning skipping runs and pools not suited to lighter sink tips.
 

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Bob,

Thanks for the answer. I guess we just prefer to fish dif. type of water. Years ago, back in my single hand days, I purchased one of ol' rock-'em and you got 'em Jim's T-300s. It did get down but proved way more tip than I ever found a need for. It did convert nicely though into two sinktips for looping onto a 9-10-11 WC.
 

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Tip',

I felt much like you that I never needed anything that big for steelhead until I fished the Dean a few years ago. I was the youngest dude in our group by 30-40 years. The guide looked at the old dudes and said to me "those guys are going to be getting to fish a lot of the 'creamy' runs, how do you feel about trying something different?" I am always game for learning new stuff and said that i was in. He asked if I had a BB300 and I didn't. He gave me one of his and he had me crawling uder trees, falling down high banks and off of boulders and casting into rapids. I mean fast water that I would normally pass by. I was thinking what the *@%! until I started hooking fish which was right away. The water was fast and heavy but the the fish found soft spots to hold. The 300 head was used as much or more to slow the fly as it was to sink it. Since then I have used it very little except last year fishing a river that was 90% blown out. We were catching fish on the edges just fine but I wanted to try something different as i follwed a friend through a run. I put the 300 on and tried to fish the lies that the fish were in when the water was lower. The 300 slowed the fly over the lies that were under heavy flows and the fish were there. Pretty fun trying stuff that you normally wouldn't bother with. I not sure that it is a "must have" but I have fun messing with it and have learned more about steelhead holding water because of it. I will add that I have tried to fish like water in other systems with the 300 with very limited success. Seems some steelhead are lazier then others and if they have a lot of "creamy" water to rest in they won't bother with the heavy stuff.

Greg
 

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Greg,

Good food for thought. The fast water/ slow down example makes a lot of sense. I think I still have a 18 or 20' section of DWE around somewhere, I might have to try it out in those type runs.

'tip
 

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Bob,

I find myself agreeing with sinktip as I've not found a need for sinking tip longer than 15'. I do, however, carry and use a 12' tip of 700 gr Deep Water Express (which is very similar to BB700gr) that sinks much faster than either the T300 or BB300gr., which I use on my 1611 T&T. Granted, it takes a meat stick rod to cast it with the mid- and long-belly lines I prefer and it really smacks the water at the end of the cast, as well as sinks 7' or more of the floating belly; but it gets down and allows slowing the drift in fast water too.
 

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Bob,

Have any thoughts on a 11/12/13 WC body with the 300grain BB? Maybe a 5ft cheater stuck in there. I was pondering it on my drive across the state for work today, now I'm 200 miles from my rods and any good water :( . Was thinking of using it on my T&T 1409, or possibly my 1309.
 

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Belly and a BB

Jamey, the WC 11/12/13 belly works well with the BB, but I found it worked even better shortened to 22.5' instead of left at the 27.5' factory length, at least for my Steelhead Specialist. It's also quite comfortable with lengths of T-14 as long as your evil, steelhead stalking heart could desire (20' is easy and 24' works). I imagine someone with a 15' for 10w would enjoy the full factory belly. FWIW, I think I sent you the spreadsheet on this line.

I believe I've cast this line on the 1309 as well with good result. I think Speyflyman would address that best, 'cause it was his rod.

Carl
 

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Thanks MJYP and Carl. I have found I prefer a shorter bodied line (compared to a MS) for fishing from a boat, less mess to deal with. I think I am leaving it at the stock length at just under 500grains. I have also found that a MS 10/11 body delivers a 300grain BB very well also.
 

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500 Grains

I think that WC will be perfect for that rod. Did you cast my 1409 with the 550 grain head a few weeks ago? B/C your 1309 feels lighter in the hand, less grains should work well for it.

Jon

PS:Wanna swing wets for trout while the salmon madness is on? Call me. :Eyecrazy: :saevilw:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Greg,
When you were on the dean fishing the BB, were you fishing it like you would any tip or did the guide have you doing something different ?

Did the slowing of the fly cone simply from the fact that the longer tip was below the faster surface current ?

jamey,
Are you using the 10/11 MS body with BB on the 1309 ?

Gillie
 

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Gillie my friend,

I learned some new stuff for sure. New ways to drive the head from the back end. Like using a 15' rod to keep a lot of the floating line off the water (holding the rod on your shoulder and having it nearly vertical) while the tip was sinking and then once the sink tip was down, melting the tip of the rod down into the drift. Sounds stupid, I will have to show you sometime because in some water types it is very effective.

The line is below the heavy current to a certain degree but more so that the long, thin heavy line is less effected by the push or flow of the current.

I am leaving in a couple of hours for 3 weeks of steelheading in the great white north. PM me in a few weeks and i will see if I can explain this better. Right now my mind is not work'n so good.

Cheers,

Greg
 

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I finally got the 11/12/13 body on the water yesterday. First off I tried it with a 300 grain big boy on the end, does the trick, but not pretty. It really goes, but the turnover and loop shape (which is probably more "me" than anything else) left a bit to be desired. Second I tried the WC body, a 10ft Int. 7/8/9 cheater, and a 9wt type 6 tip. This combo really shined, I was utterly amazed at the ease with which I could throw a nice loop a long distance. I came pretty close to the backing knot a few times without really getting on it at all. In most cases, I was easily "hitting the reel" when shooting line. Most of the day I was fishing big balls of rabbit fur with huge "Deep Sea" eyes on them, picked it up and turned it over without hesitation. I was fishing from a boat yesterday, if wading I think I would go with the 5ft cheater.

With the 10ft cheater, the whole package came in at about [email protected] According to my Rio card, the 5ft cheater would be [email protected] I had contemplated unloading this rod, because I have the 1409 also. Yesterday made me decide she is sticking around, as the 1409 really shines with an MS 8/9, and will be great for winter fish.

And Gillie,
No, I had been using it on a 1510 Scott A2. I only mentioned it because it worked so perfectly together. I get a bit skittish about putting 750 grains on that rod (the1309) in that short of a line. I personally don't think I would go that heavy, with the 875grains on the 1309.
I should also mention that my 1309 is a bit older. I had heard that T&T stiffened up their rods a bit since this one was produced. Comparing my 1409 and my 1309 side by side, this would hold true, IMHO.
 
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