Spey Pages banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I have a casting question...

When im doing a double spey or Circle/Snap T etc, I find that almost everytime I apply my power stroke and shoot line, the loop is big and open, and the back end of the skagit head lands on the water first (im certainly not able to cast very far either).

Im trying to stop the rod tip high (I know dropping the rod tip will cause the line to follow, sending it lower), and trying to stop the rod abruptly, but still cant seem to figure out what im doing wrong. My only other guess is that im losing some tension during the D-loop/sweep before my forward stroke, but not sure what I can do about that... Im trying to not apply too much power too.

Thanks in advance for your tips!
 

·
Scandit sublima virtus
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
It sounds like your D-loop isn't energized.
Try looking over your shoulder when you sweep and see how the d-loop looks when you arrive at the key position before you send it out. You might not be putting enough energy into the d-loop, which will result in an underpowered forward cast.

Also, pay attention to your rod tip path, if you're curving in and down that can open the loop up too.
Give 'er a try, and let us know what you come up with!
 

·
Internet Scientist
Joined
·
1,302 Posts
It sounds like your D-loop isn't energized.
Yup.
Possible culprits:
Not thrusting ("45-deg") into d-loop.
Dropping the tip of the rod downward (beyond you) right before forward stroke (trunking).
Going forward to soon (not letting the d-loop form fully) - watch until the tip starts to turn in-line with the line, then go with accelerating stroke.

That's my experience above. Stay with it, you'll get there. Videos help tremendously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yup.
Possible culprits:
Not thrusting ("45-deg") into d-loop.
Dropping the tip of the rod downward (beyond you) right before forward stroke (trunking).
Going forward to soon (not letting the d-loop form fully) - watch until the tip starts to turn in-line with the line, then go with accelerating stroke.

That's my experience above. Stay with it, you'll get there. Videos help tremendously.
Good points - I actually think I'm NOT doing all of these things
Thanks!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Is the weight of your head well matched to your rod ?

Make sure that it is not too heavy.
Yes I think so. I have an echo DH2 7130 and am using an Airflo 540 skagit with about 12' of T11 (or T8 depending). It's the recommended grain weight for the rod according to the Rajeffsports site.

I think my technique is the problem as much as I'd like to blame the tools.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
Hi all,

I have a casting question...

everytime I apply my power stroke and shoot line,
There's a power stroke? Hmmmmmm....maybe you are getting too crazy when you try to shoot line or letting go to early.

Sounds like things are good when you dont shoot line though, so you are on the right track! Try shooting your line in itty bitty increments to start with and build on that. Same with power. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Another thing to look at is that I get bigger, open loops when I start to get lazy or try to force the cast and end up using too much top hand, which as noted above, probably is causing the rod tip to travel downwards as opposed to a flatter path away from you.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
Just like MikeB it's top hand thrust that is the most common source of open ineffective loops for me. This happens when I'm tired and I have not energized the D loop, to compensate my body pistons with top hand to "save" the cast...never ever works.

Steady power into D loop, firm bottom hand on fwd stroke to a high abrupt stop = tight loops with a good trajectory for me.

Keep at it, much of the fun is in dialing in your cast. It will come.
 

·
On the Columbia River,B.C
Single hand rod 63 years, Spey 12 years Fly tying 63 years
Joined
·
435 Posts
Watch your D loop as you make your cast. Watch the pros when they are doing a long cast and they watch their D loop being formed. Some turn their head completely and others seem to watch out of the corner of their eye. This is the only way you are going to be able tell if you are forming your D loop properly and bringing your rod into the correct casting position.
If you have been a single hand caster then you are going to have to concentrate on this as most single hand casters don't watch their back cast.
As a long time single hand caster I had a hell of a time to concentrate on watching my D loop.

When I first started spey casting I tried a skagit with a sink tip. It was terrible. Took the sink tip off and put on a dry tip and casting went much better after that. Now a sink tip is no problem. I find a scandi line much nicer to cast, and if you want to use sink tips a scandi versa tip is very nice.
 

·
On the Columbia River,B.C
Single hand rod 63 years, Spey 12 years Fly tying 63 years
Joined
·
435 Posts
Tell the guys here what rod you are using. Make ,model, rod length,etc. and the line you are using and you will probably get a lot more information.
 

·
Pupil of the river.
Joined
·
403 Posts
Too much top hand. The reason can be several... Creep, Trunk, Too much rise during the D-Loop formation...

I had the same problem. It usually means that you're compensating with the the top hand because something is wrong with the D-loop. Throw away your forward stroke. Concentrate on forming a powerful V-loop, then send it out. CONCENTRATE ON THE V-LOOP, not the forward stroke.

Here is THE most important advice I ever gleaned and no one ever came straight out and said it....

The lift is enormously important. You can't finish a good cast without a good lift, and a good lift and set-up MUST be started with the bottom hand. Start a cast with the bottom hand and you'll finish the cast with the bottom hand.

Hopefully all this advice helps.
J
 

·
JD
Joined
·
3,609 Posts
Technique vs equipment

I have an echo DH2 7130 and am using an Airflo 540 skagit with about 12' of T11 (or T8 depending).
I think my technique is the problem as much as I'd like to blame the tools.
The equipment is close enough to maximum setup for your rod, so let's concentrate on technique. For starters, review the Skagit Master I dvd, concentrating on:
  1. Anchor placement
  2. arms/elbows in close to the body stay "inside the box"
  3. no creep prior to start of sweep, out & around
  4. CMCL: constant motion, constant load, all the way into the power stroke without a stop, pause, or slowing down of any kind.
  5. bottom hand pull
Now, for DS, this translates into lift & set anchor, allowing a count of at least 1-1000 2-1000 for the tip to "dig in" before starting the sweep. Start the sweep from rod pointing straight upstream. This gives you 270° of out & around motion, throwing the line (D-loop) out towards the middle of the river, down river, & finally back towards your bank, to load the rod. If, during this sweep,you slow down at anytime, the tension is lost and the rod unloads. Should the rod lose it's load, you have to whack the hell out of it, which will shock the tip, resulting in a less than satisfactory cast. On the other hand, execute the sweep smoothly, transitioning into the key position and power stroke while maintaining constant tension on the line. At that point, the rod is already partially loaded, very little more power is required to make the cast.
 

·
JD
Joined
·
3,609 Posts
In addition to the above

If the rod tip dips during the sweep, you will see the D-loop also dip into the water. This will have an adverse effect on rod loading and conversely, the cast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,937 Posts
I think you release running line too late and rod tip straightening and counter flex shoots rear end of line too much down. So try releasing earlier.

Another fix is to use more overhang. Then when line rear end follows rod tip further behind the tip straightening and tip "overshooting" down does not pull line head trajectory too much down when there is length of light shooting line between line belly and rod tip. Overhang is easy and efficient method to make line loop narrower.

Esa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Punching the rod on the forward stroke: too much power applied too early in too short a distance instead of a smooth acceleration to the forward stop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Yes I think so. I have an echo DH2 7130 and am using an Airflo 540 skagit with about 12' of T11 (or T8 depending). It's the recommended grain weight for the rod according to the Rajeffsports site.

I think my technique is the problem as much as I'd like to blame the tools.
The 540gr is the heavy side, also try a 510gr on that rod, it will throw a little lighter and let you speed up your tempo a touch.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top