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Hi All,
Need some recommendations & sources for sinking leaders. Fishing slow to moderate currents 6-10' w/ lightly weighted streamers. Would like to use my RIO Windcutter 7/8/9 F, but still need to get near the bottom. Tips seem to be a bit much, down too fast & hanging up instead of swinging. No local distributors of anything close. Thanks, &
Good drifts,
Gene
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Our sponsor Rio also makes both 12' and 7' sinking tapered leaders with a 24 # mono end and a loop on the butt end for attachment to the fly line. I have fished the airflo 10' fast sink salmon in the past but just got some Rio 12' salmon and look forward to trying them out. I attach flourocarbon or maxima onto the tip and taper down to desired tippet over about 3 feet, making for a 15' overall leader. The 'grip' of the leader is a little different and they are no substitute for a sinktip when needed but are a nice middle ground between a totally dry leader and a sinktip. I like them for pulling flies like muddlers under the surface when desired, although deer hair flies are great on top sometimes it's nice to pull them under where they really go wild.

Check out the newly updated site for more details... http://www.rioproducts.com
 

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Very cool Juro; can't get to the 'click' this evening, but will go

there tomorrow. Have been using the Airflo sinking leaders for eons and have done as advertised .... except .... the 'leader' core won't hold a large fish.

You may have a better answer for the Rogue.
fae

ps: $ in the mail, and I'll respect you in the morning.
:devil:
 

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The Fly shop in Welches carries the Airflo and maybe the Rio leaders. Airflo come in 10' and 5' lengths and range from floating to intermediate to fast sink to super fast sink. They really do get down. They are essentially a tip so if you connect directly to your fly line they will hinge some as the fine tip of your fly line does not transfer energy very well. A regular tip is connected up into the thicker belly section of the line thus reducing hinging but they are still very effective and not that difficult to manipulate.

They come in trout and salmon - I would highly recommend the salmon as they have a heavier core - I have not had that core break unlike Fred but then I have been mostly hooking steelhead and silvers up to 12# and no real brutes!
 

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Coednakedspey
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I was fishing with my new Rio Grandspey 8/9 yeseterday.
What I did to get down, b/c I am hoping I can get away without cutting this line for tips for as long as possible, was I albright knotted a piece of 30 pound Mono (I think I'm gonna go to some 40 or 50 pound from now on) onto the end of the fly line, and then made a small loop with one of my loop knot concoctions I use so I can loop on the Poly Leaders. I then picked up a 10 foot Super fast sinking Airflo poly leader. Well this system cast fairly well, at least considering I had a 30 pound Mono loop in between the fly line and the polyleader which causes a slight loss in energy transfer, but it wasn't getting down as much as I'd like. So I had to resort to desperate measures. I looped on the 15 foot type 5 Sink tip (from my old Mastery Tri Tip line) onto the end of my fly line. This system didn't cast as well, but with a bit of adjustments, it still cast reasonably enough to fish/cast at close to moderate distance. Goes to show you two things: One the need for a faster sinking poly leader (Yes I know Airflo makes an "Extra Super Fast Sink", the next one up, which I should have bought instead). Two, how well the grains in the Rio line can still turn over lines heavy tips, even with a tip on the end, with some good authority, something I like about it.

But if Rio makes a 12 foot sinking leader that sinks at 7 inches/second, I'm in! It's nice to see that Rio makes sink tips (IE Type 6, Type 8) and now sinking leaders that actually sink enough to fish for Winter runs. We need something that gets down "NOW" so it is effectively fishing depth fairly early after the cast is made as opposed to taking almost the whole hangdown to sink.
 

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Scott, per RIO's web site it appears their two

sinking leaders (7' and 12') have equal sink rates. One is just longer than the other.

Although I've not used the RIO product (the 12 footers are new for 2003, and not aware of anyone around Medford that carries the leader RIO products) if they're any thing like the Airflo products they're probably the "cats meow."

The rod I center on (with the xtra fast sinkers) is the 15' Sage 9wt matched up with the RIO 9-10 Acltr. GOD YOU CAN THROW the head, even with a two fly set up, into tomorrow. I'll run a 5-6 foot section of 30# test from the fly line tip, loop to the sinker, then run a 4-5 foot leader to the top fly, then another 3-4' down to the second fly. Lot of stuff out there, but I can consistently cast the entire head with a double spey, and shoot up to another 15-20'' of running line with this set up. (Heck of a lot of stuff but the fish are sitting on the far side of the river at lower Denmon. You either cast to within 4 foot of the far bank to get into the slot, or stay in your car and drink coffee. Three of us working the water yesterday evening. One fellow blanked, the other guy and I had 5 between us).

He was using a spinning rod, bubble and flys to hit the far beach (still one of the most effective ways to get to Mr. Fish around here during fly only season) or a cannon spey rod.

Extra fun thing was a guide (rather a gentleman I might add) pulled his clients over and beached his boat above me when (kept the 10# hatchery buck) I had one of the fish on at the time. Two older lady clients stood there smiling like the Cheshier Cat in Alice in Wonderland during the production. They'd only hit one fish during their float so told him where the fish were lying off the far beach (ok deal by the other fellows). Takes them out to where they could use their rods (one actually a sage 7136 spey being used 'over-hand') and proceeded to stick a very large fish on the second or third "cast."

I suspect you could hear their shreeks all the way to downtown Medford. The other guys and I stood on the beach and shared a very large scotch-rocks and smiled. Happy evening for all.

Well, back to the sinking leader for a moment: As strange as it sounds, with all that "stuff" hanging off the end, the 9-10 Axcrtr has the grains, and head config. to blow it out without a wimper. Also suspect that the 'stiffness' of the 15' 9wt Sage vs. the 9wt 14'er makes all the difference in the world.
fae
 

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sink leaders

call mark bachman at the flyshop. you want the airflo 10 ft super extra fast sinking extra strong salmon leader. attach it where you would attach a regular 15 ft sinktip.tie a loop in the bottom end and loop connect 3 ft of leader[no taper,just straight length of 10-15 lb.the extra strong is 40lb core. i have not had any problems with it or the normal strength[24lb].i have had over 70 of the hottest steelhead in the world [several from15 to 30lbs]well into my backing with no failures in the last 1 1/4 yr.
beau
 

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rio 3.9 ips/7.0 ips

I too am a fan of the Rio sinking leaders. I have a stockpile of them which I use as sinktips so I don't need to carry around extra spools with me. The 3.9 ips sink is a dream to cast but the depth charge 7.0 ips hinges a bit. All in all they are are an excellent alternative to a mini-tip and when interchanged can acheive a variety of depth levels in minutes.

One note - if you are using floro you will be better served tying a perfection loop in the mono end of the rio leader and using a handshake loop to attach 3 feet of your favorite tippett material. Maybe even throw a small tugsten bead on there if you're feeling crazy :eyecrazy: Just keep an eye on the mono end of the rio leader as the mono gets brittle after a while.
 
J

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This thread has bounced all over the place without making a critical distinction. There are Polyleaders and there are sinking braided leaders and they are quite different. Air Flo makes both and they are priced pretty much the same, but from guys I've talked to who have used both, the Polyleader seems more durable. Rio has also made both in the past and it's not clear in the 2003 catalog which style the new 12 footers are. The key difference is that sinking braided leaders have the sinking property inserted into the hollow core of the braid whereas with Polyleaders the core is mono and the coating has the sinking properties. I'm sure both work, but no one on this thread was making the distinction and that would be critical when deciding to purchase one. Give both a try and see which one seems to work better for you.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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The new Rio tapered sinking leaders are coated with the same material as any regular sinktip fly line and similar in appearance to the old Airflo Salmon tapered sinking leaders. They are not braided. The line that accepts the leader / tippet on the business end is 24# test mono on the salmon / steelhead version.

They are significantly more stealthy than braided tapered leaders. Even the loops on the back end are a matched dark color and nicely built.
 

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Might be off on this one but the 'braded'

leaders have the exterior smothness of a heavy grit sand paper. The coated ones sink just as fast and won't screw up your guides.
fae
 

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Use Non-slip Loop

I wouldn't use the perfection loops in making these connections, as it is not as strong as the non-slip loop
 

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Discussion Starter #13
A clarification

Hi Gentlemen,
Maybe a clarification is in order here. I fishing for post spawn brown trout in pools generally not more than 12' deep, generally about 8' w/ low flows, not a whole lot of current. These are slow, cold fish that will take something if you bounce it off their nose, but they're not going to move up after a streamer, so it has to be close to the bottom, but a 15' sinktip is too much. I have to move it too fast to keep it from hanging the bottom. Not very many blistering runs. What I'm looking for is a system to get down to them @ w/ a little control. More than anything else, I just want a good excuse to go play w/ my new Spey rod :hehe:
Good drifts,
Gene
 

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Polyleaders

Gene,
It sounds like the polyleader would be a good choice for those conditions. I am not sure you would have to go to the fastest sinking ones either.
 

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sinking leaders & No-slip loop

Nevada Caster,
Check out this web page for a pretty good photo series demonstrating how to tie the no-slip loop.

http://www.sefly.com/no_slip_loop_knot.htm


And if that one doesn't do it for you, check out this diagram illustration from the folks at Stren.

http://www.stren.com/stren/knot4.htm


It's a great knot, I started using it for fishing lakes and ponds but soon came to appreciate the presentation it provides in river and stream fishing. It works great for the down and across on a floating or sinking line. John
:D
 

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non-slip loop

Thanks for all of the information on this knot. I am practicing it and like it for tying on my flies. However, my main interest in loops is for a loop to loop connection from a poly leader to the tippet. Over the years I have gotten pretty proficient in tying the perfect loop with a very samll amount of the mono protruding from the poly leader. However I am disappointed with the strength of this knot. 95% of my breaks are at this knot. So far I have found that the non-slip knot takes a lot more line to tie, which means a lot more stripping of the poly coating off of the mono line of the leader.
Re loop in tippet. Rio on their web site says that after much research, they have found that the best knot for looping fluorocarbon is the water knot. this is a four turn surgeon's loop, and takes a lot of line I don't know if thier research included the non-slip knot
 
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