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Discussion Starter #1
hi guys

this question has been bugging me for a little while.

this question relates to overhead casting on D/H rods.

How does a 36 -40 foot headed line work on a D/H rod. I would assume the head shape would be fine and turn over well

And thus assuming it does work then how do the line weights convert over.


thanks in advance
 

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Junkyard Spey
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I don't have any set rules for figuring out the difference but for some examples, the 12'-6"-6wt TFO spey casts a 6/7 Delta spey line nicely for me and I like a 9wt single hand line on that rod for overhead.

The CND Expert 1306 spey casts for me nicely with a WC 5/6 or Hardy Mach 1 spey line and I like a 7wt single hand line for overhead. I believe Kush talked of using the same rod with regular 6wt lines of some lake fishing he did.

I've had several 14'-9/10 spey rods that seemed to work well overhead with 11wt or 12wt 35' Airflo heads.

For me it has mostly been trial and error. Maybe one of the "jedi masters" has a proven formula. Don't be afraid to experiment. The worst that can happen is you'll waste a little time.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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As Simon Gawesworth points out, the head length of 38 feet or better works out very well for fishing and overhead casting on a DH rod. Thus the answer is yes, as many single hand lines are in that range provided the grains match up and the taper is good. I tried all kinds of head lengths and ended up with what Simon suggested in the first place with the Atlantis.

Longer lines like short spey lines (54ft; e.g. windcutter) also cast well overhead, in fact I find them easier to cast - but for fishing my tastes are for the shorter lines because every foot I can strip the fly toward the bank could mean another grab by a hungry gamefish.

Clearly a longer rod helps with longer belly lines if your application justifies the extra graphite.
 

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"This question relates to overhead casting on D/H rods.

"How does a 36 -40 foot headed line work on a D/H rod. I would assume the head shape would be fine and turn over well>"

The head weight is probably more important than length w/ a single hand line.

My favorite surf line and Striper line with the two handed rods is Rio's Striper 26' DC line with the built in 350 grain head or Rio's Striper shooting line with the 26' DC Tips.

The Rio Striper 26' DC w/ the built in 350 grain head is one of Ken Hanley's favorite lines, and he uses it extensively in his new DVD re fly fishing for ocean salmon.

That line works well with my Sage 7141, my Meiser 9/10 Switch rod, and my new Sage TCR 9129-4. Yesterday, I used the Rio Striper 26 DCR 350 grain in terrible conditions re wind at Bodega Bay with my new TCR 9129-4. The combo sliced and diced the wind up to 70-80 feet with some heavy flies.

Find out what grains your DH rod works best with and work with that. Meiser can sell you a great little scale which shows you the real weight of a head or fly line, not the manufacturer's claim.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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I love the Rio DC for stripers on the single hander, especially from a boat. I am curious though if others find that the 26ft head holds it's loop form as far as a two-hander can throw it or not.

In other words:

It's easy to throw over 100ft with a two-hander, yet I find that a 26ft head runs out of runway before the full length of the cast can complete. The mass in the line keeps going after the kinetic transfer of energy in the sideways "u" shape expires, thus sending a flailing out-of-loop shape forward once the loop passes through the short head.

Three things help this (a) a big wind resistant fly (b) slowing the stroke down and (c) using a longer head length and taper. However after much experimentation, and personal preferences I find the 38ft mark to be the magic compromise for coastal flyfishing with stripped streamer type flies from shore. Most of my perspective comes from 6" flies for SWFF, consistent casts of 115-120ft, and strip retrieving to the knot or close to it.

As you add a longer taper, the longer casts tend to hold on to the loop longer, thus letting the cast reach further. But too long of a head requires that a lot of fat line is stripped into the guides while fishing a fly with enticing action close to shore, slowing down the re-load and fire process that might be key to hooking more fish. The line should slip easily out with a single flip or with the receeding wave for the next cast to full distance, false casts are really unnecessary as well as a good single backcast can fire such a head over the shoreline turbulence.

Although I failed to explain the 'why' in my previous post, I hope this is a better explanation of why I find the 38ft length ideal for the application of shoreline flyfishing with strip-retrieved large flies in surf and tiderips.

For river applications or flatwing swinging in currents I would opt for a 45-55ft head for line control and smoother stroke casting even still but that's another story...
 

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To juro:


"I love the Rio DC for stripers on the single hander, especially from a boat."

It is a rocket laser with Meiser's 9/10 Switch rod in my son's Striper boat. I keep a few wraps of the running line on my reel and don't cast beyond that distance. I don't want a life time striper busting through my knot on his strike and first tug run. I seldom see that L mess at the end you describe from his boat or mine.

However, from the shore or wading, I see that quite often. I saw it yesterday while casting with my new TCR 9129-4. I wasn't using that big of a fly, my flies were heavy though. I never realized what was causing it, but you are correct, the loop just outruns the line and causes the L at the end. I had less of one with my left hand overhand casts yesterday. Of course my left handed casts were about 20' less in distance.

Of course when you are my age and a terrible caster to begin with, I never worry about what any cast looks like if it gets into the fishing zone. My son's loops with 30' of T14 are so tight and powerful at 80 feet, he could drive nails with his loop. The last 3 times we were striper fishing, we caught the same number and basically the same size on two trips and on one trip my number of landed fish was significantly better. He grimaces everytime my wounded duck loop flutters out and shakes his head when I'm unto a nice striper while he is stripping in a 100+' of running line and 30' of T14. Also, he misses more strikes with all of that running line and T14 in the water than I do.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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great imagery Dave!

Reminds me of the old bull and the young bull on top of the hill looking at the valley full of cows. The young bull wants to run down and meet a cow. The old bull walks down and wants to meet them all :lildevl:

See you in SF,
Juro
 

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Juro, here is to the old bulls and Speyorama in SF.

Jure, sometimes the old bulls win. :saevilw: Also, last year, I wasn't the one wearing a tennis elbow appliance from too much double hauling a 10 weight rod with, 100' of running line and 30' of T14 with a big ocean reel. :rolleyes:

Juro, I'm looking forward to seeing you again in SF. Besides meeting and seeing good people like you again, I plan to overdose on Skagit lines and casting. :Eyecrazy:
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Sounds good! Looking forward to it for sure.
 

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Been doing some 'experimenting' with full sink lines on DH rods. Some I've hit have been a bit surprising. Latest was a #7 Full sink Type IV SA on the Sage 7136-4. Pops that baby out quite nicely. Heavier rod (burkie 7-8-9 just over welmed the line; Slipped on a #8 type III and zoom! was over kill, but upping the full sinker to a #8 was a good match.

Next off is to try the #8 on my 7-8-9 Meiser.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I possibly equall you guys with is enthusiasm but technicaly and wisdom wise you boys are up there with the jedi!

i can report however that today I popped to my local beach (20 yards from home) and had a quick play with my aussie fly Talon 7/8 with a boring old Rio mainstream saltwater 10# line.

awesome fun.
im not sure what I was allowing to drift on the back cast but it must have been an extra 10 -15 feet beyond the 36 foot or so of head.Every shot was a full line without any real effort and I enjoyed airealising a long line rather than just fireing a S/Head

The G force was enough to strip a saltwater fly bare . I ended up with a bare (undented) hook.

The fly was a prototype from a supplier. I will call them on monday and let them know the bad news!

photo below is either a powerfull haul or that rock I hooked at the begining of the session!

sunny day at last (and just a T shirt!)

http://photos7.flickr.com/8131303_20668a6768.jpg
 
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