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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I'm in the process of making a shooting head for a SH 7wt 8'6" rod. This is my first venture into spey casting a SH rod. My question concerns the single haul part of the cast and the length of line out of the rod tip and consequent extra to allow for the haul. For example, if the head is say, 28', the overhang is normally 1' and allowing 3' extra for the single haul, that would make for 4' of running line beyond the the rod tip( ie 3' more than with a DH rod). So I assume that I would have 3' extra running line out during the sweep which would seem to me might create a problem during the cast. Again with a DH cast, I normally have about a foot of overhang plus the head beyond the tip top, so if I had the same for the SH rod and did a single haul, I would be pulling the head inside the tip.

Maybe I would be better off to make the head an integrated line.

Any thoughts/help would be appreciated................thanks
 

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All Tangled Up
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I presume the concern is about the running line / head junction going through the guides?

It is definitely easier to learn with an integrated head, but, if you can manage incorporating a haul into a single-handed spey cast, you should be able to manage a shooting head system. Use shorter hauls (do you really need a 3' haul?), learn to double-haul into the backcast, improve your casting to where you can manage more overhang, or all of the above.

I would suggest just getting comfortable with the single-handed spey casts and not worry so much about hypothetical future problems. Once your spey casts are solid increase your overhang a bit and start putting in little hauls. My experience was that, while frustrating for a while, the adjustments needed to manage the shooting head connection in the end were not that large.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks guys for responding and yes, that's exactly my concern of the head being inside the tip guide when casting. When I say a 3' haul I guess I'm thinking more of overhead casting so your suggestions of using a shorter haul makes sense. In Henrik Mortensen's book, he does show a SH spey cast with a full extension of his line hand to the side during the single haul but hey, I ain't no Henrik Mortensen, so shorten up I will.
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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You can also try shooting a few feet into the d-loop, that's used in a UK technique used on the Tay and Tummel rivers. A little tricky at first, but super cool fun. It translates to a shorthead sh cast OK.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You can also try shooting a few feet into the d-loop, that's used in a UK technique used on the Tay and Tummel rivers. A little tricky at first, but super cool fun. It translates to a shorthead sh cast OK.
This may be what troutless means when he says to "double-haul into the backcast". I do this of course in the double haul for an OH cast but can't quite visualize it for a spey cast. Do you (or anyone else) know a source (video,youtube,etc) that would explain the technique?
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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offhand, you might try Ally Gowan's website or Bob Gillespie's, both are top notch UK casters. Ally, he's more like a living legend.

BTW, Bob has an outstanding section on scandi style on his site too, it was game-changing information to me.

The old Rio dvd on spey casting had Simon doing the clearest demo of sh spey I've ever seen.

Best as I can describe, have a few feet ready to go into the loop as you're coming around. So you lift, get the line going back, and then let a few feet it be carried in by the momentum of the line, coming to full tension before the leader touches down. The haul comes in the last part of the forward stroke, obviously before the stop. Works way better for me if I keep my hands close together during the first half of the forward stroke.

I hate trying to describe stuff like this, it's way easier to do it than write it.
 

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This may be what troutless means when he says to "double-haul into the backcast". I do this of course in the double haul for an OH cast but can't quite visualize it for a spey cast. Do you (or anyone else) know a source (video,youtube,etc) that would explain the technique?
It is exactly the same as an OH cast -- add a haul into the backcast. Getting this right is definitely an advanced technique, but way cool when you get it. Once you get it, with long heads, you'll find yourself using it all the time.

Simon Gawesworth has an excellent description in his book on the single-handed spey casts. Calls these techniques the 'turbo spey'. There is also a good writeup/photo essay in the Winter 2014/15 issue of Swing The Fly (issue 2.4).

Simon claims that on double speys and snake rolls, one can use a triple-haul. I've attempted a couple times, only: in the immortal words of Harry Callahan, "A man has got to know his limitations."
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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Right.
For overheading, a double haul is a haul into the backcast, and a haul in the forward stroke.
For singlehand spey, it gets a little trickier because in the overhead double haul, you're giving the hauled line back as the backcast straightens behind you, but that opportunity isn't there with a D loop. The tricky part comes when you're giving line to the d-loop. Once the leader touches, you could kill the cast if you feed line in. So it has to be an energetic V loop to shoot line into it.

This is another one of those deals where words are failing me, I wish I could just show you.
 

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Holding the length of line you need for forward cast haul on line hand and holding line under rod hand finger against cork so that just the line head is out of rod tip it is easy to release just enough line to overhead back cast or to Spey D-loop.

Esa
 

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I single hand a fair amount with my singles on the stream. I use a TT sized one over for the rod and have not had an issue. I will also use a steelhead taper (again a size over) with the first few (5ish) feet cut off on my 7wt. both will work well while I toss sculipns to smallies. I only wish I learned this 20 years ago!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What line are you presently using on this rod?
Gary
Gary, I'm using a single hand WF7F Cortland 444 SL where the first 30' is around 185 gr. I'm aiming for a head of 230 to 250gr at around 25-28' depending on how it casts. I'm wanting a fairly short head for tight quarters and also relatively delicate presentation. The casts are usually in the area of 50-70'.
Unfortunately we're still in the middle of snow here and I'm not yet able to try anything although the season opens in a week.............just gathering info for now.
 

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fly on little wing
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Gary, I'm using a single hand WF7F Cortland 444 SL where the first 30' is around 185 gr. I'm aiming for a head of 230 to 250gr at around 25-28' depending on how it casts. I'm wanting a fairly short head for tight quarters and also relatively delicate presentation. The casts are usually in the area of 50-70'.
Unfortunately we're still in the middle of snow here and I'm not yet able to try anything although the season opens in a week.............just gathering info for now.
Give it a go. What you have will work just fine and provide a delicate presentation. A shorter and heavier head will not provide a more delicate presentation. The haul you are asking about is performed on the forward stroke and does not need to be overly aggressive. Circle C, Double Spey, single spey and snake roll cast can all be performed with your WF7F to the distances you mention. Turnover should be good with moderate sized flies and excellent with smaller flies.

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Give it a go. What you have will work just fine and provide a delicate presentation. A shorter and heavier head will not provide a more delicate presentation. The haul you are asking about is performed on the forward stroke and does not need to be overly aggressive. Circle C, Double Spey, single spey and snake roll cast can all be performed with your WF7F to the distances you mention. Turnover should be good with moderate sized flies and excellent with smaller flies.

Gary
Gary, if I'm going to spey cast a SH weight forward line, shouldn't I go up a couple of line sizes......... say a 9wt for my 7wt single hand rod?
 

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Scandit sublima virtus
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I'm not Gary, but I'm sure he'll answer too.

Just last month, I chopped a 8WF for use on my 9'6" 7wt. Casts pretty well, the extra weight really slows the rod down and improves control. I like it for singlehand spey.
 

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fly on little wing
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Gary, if I'm going to spey cast a SH weight forward line, shouldn't I go up a couple of line sizes......... say a 9wt for my 7wt single hand rod?
it is best to upline a 2H rod with +2 wt of a SH line.
you do not need to upline a SH rod with a SH line.
if you want to "slow" things down, go +1 wt with a SH line.
this is fairly common so normal guys can actually OH cast the extra fast action SH rods
Some lines are made slightly heavier than AFTMA SH line standards.
for example, the rio outbound short. you can try this in SH 7wt.

i would keep it simple until you try out what you have.
no need to over complicate at this point.

Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks

Thanks to everyone who has replied (and to those who may still). Lots of very helpful info that I can work with here. Hopefully some others will benefit as well.................just wish this snow would disappear so I can get started.

Cheers all.
 
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