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Discussion Starter #1
Reading some of the other posts I learned that most people will fish close and work their way out to longer distances. Then fish the long distance down the river.

How do you make the shorter casts? The reason I ask is I was doing a little practicing last night and found that my setup had a sweet distance. It didn't like shorter distances and I struggled at longer distances. About 60' seems to be a sweet spot. (At least for my skill level.) I'm guessing that the design of the line going from a thin front taper that gradually increases to the main body means that it will be not so efficient for throwing short casts. The front taper isn't heaviy enough to load the rod properly. But the design taper is neccesary to throw LONG casts. (See attached image.) It seems like there is a design trade off between nice long casts and less efficient short casts.

Or am I just using the wrong line? (An Airflo Delta.)
 

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Here we go again!
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Actually, in my opinion, you are correct in thinking that the short game suffers with longer lines. The thing I have found out about all of this is that even shorter lines are ill equipped at the short game unless you put on a leader sufficient to aid in good turnover. So many people are using mono leaders, either the machine made tapered or hand tied, and on short lines I think these really suck! If you take, as you mentioned, an Airflo Delta line and put on a furled leader or a poly leader, the leaders act as an extension of the line and turnover even at really short distances improves greatly. The mono leaders are great on long lines because they don't add stick which makes the lift much harder and they are better able to turnover with less mass in the finer front taper of a long belly.

When I fish shorter distances I like the Delta lines and furled or poly leaders, you should give them a try if you're into the short game. Do a search here on furled leaders and poly leaders and you'll find a lot of discussion.
 

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Pullin' Thread
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Geof,

I've been using an 8/9 MidSpey on my Loomis GLX 8/9 for the past 4 years and regularly fish from 30' out to 85'-90' with it. In fact on my 15' and longer rods, I use only long belly lines and fish them from 40' out to 100'+ and haven't had a problem with them at any of those distances.

For the very short 30' casts (which only have 15' of line out the rod tip since I use 15' leaders with a floating line) I make the cast with very little power applied to the rod or the cast becomes overpowered. Really the short cast is made with only with the tip of the rod.

Does such a short cast feel different than a cast of 60'-75'? yes. And you don't really feel the rod "load" at such short distances (anymore than you feel a single-hand rod when you only have 10' of fly line out the tip); but these short casts are really very easy to do.

And the cast of over 75' require a lot more power be added to the forward spey, most easily accomplished by slightly longer stroke and a very hard stop.
 

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Skidrow Woolley Fly Club
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Change your cast. Example; a double spey is over kill for a 30 foot cast with any line. Try using the perry poke or similar cast for shorter distances.
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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Geoff -

I have some time Sunday AM before attending to a family birthday party. If you have an hour to spare run up to the rte 111 bridge over the Nashua River in Hollis NH (thru Pepperell, near the little store).

I will be practicing there and you're welcome to join in albeit I will only be there for a short time as I need to get ready.
 

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Just keep the rod flatter on the set up and during the cast. Use the tip to cast with. Good to remember this when you get under brush and tighter places.

Leroy............
 

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Discussion Starter #7
juro said:
Geoff -

I have some time Sunday AM before attending to a family birthday party. If you have an hour to spare run up to the rte 111 bridge over the Nashua River in Hollis NH (thru Pepperell, near the little store).

I will be practicing there and you're welcome to join in albeit I will only be there for a short time as I need to get ready.
I talked to the boss and she says that we aren't doing anything Sunday morning. About what time? Oh, I don't have an NH license. Will the Fish and Game guys get mad? (I assume not since I'll be practicing and not fishing.)

I guess the reason I started this thread was to get a little discussion going on the balance between line design for throwing a long cast against throwing shorter casts. Spey casters seem to focus on the 80' to over 100' casts. I think that line designs may be sacraficing some fishability close in to the fisherman in order to be able to throw long casts.

One of the things I find funny is people who fish from shore try to throw as far out as they can while people on a boat work hard to throw as close to shore as they can. :D
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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No license required for practicing. 8 or 8:30a

Parking lot in on the left bank, walk down the road a few feet and take the fire road to the shore.

You will need waders.
 

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Mr. Mom
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baldmountain said:
I guess the reason I started this thread was to get a little discussion going on the balance between line design for throwing a long cast against throwing shorter casts. Spey casters seem to focus on the 80' to over 100' casts. I think that line designs may be sacraficing some fishability close in to the fisherman in order to be able to throw long casts.
:D
Well... Think of it this way instead. A modern line should be optimized to throw the entire belly efficiently, because to do otherwise would be silly.

But just as you can throw only the leader, or 5 feet of line with a thirty foot long Weight forward line and a single handed rod, you can throw only the leader and 5 feet of line with a spey line and a spey rod. That short and nothing needs to touch the water. 15 to 25feet of line? Anchor the leader and maybe a foot or two of line if you need to, but you don't need to do any cast. setup the leader on the water, REMEMBERING THE 180 DEGREE PRINCIPLE, and use the tip snap off a crisp, short stroke aerial roll cast.

Piece of cake. Juro is being incredibly generous. You are fortunate!
 

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I believe that Amy Hazel in the Hazel cd shows how to work the close water.

Flytyer posted, "For the very short 30' casts (which only have 15' of line out the rod tip since I use 15' leaders with a floating line) I make the cast with very little power applied to the rod or the cast becomes overpowered. Really the short cast is made with only with the tip of the rod."

With a 15' leader and a couple of feet of tippet you can work the really close water with just the leader and a little line outside the tip. If the close water is deep enough, you start working the water without wading and no real casts just drop it into the water let it work down stream (strip out some line if needed). Then, strip it back in and do what Flytyer suggested, or you can do a simple roll cast or Perry Poke as was suggested.
 

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Below is a prime example of why Juro is one of the best ambassadors for Spey fishing:

"Geoff -

I have some time Sunday AM before attending to a family birthday party. If you have an hour to spare run up to the rte 111 bridge over the Nashua River in Hollis NH (thru Pepperell, near the little store).

I will be practicing there and you're welcome to join in albeit I will only be there for a short time as I need to get ready.
__________________
FFF Certified Spey Instructor
CND Spey Rods ProStaff
Founder, Flyfishing Forum "
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Philster said:
Well... Think of it this way instead. A modern line should be optimized to throw the entire belly efficiently, because to do otherwise would be silly.
Yup!

Philster said:
But just as you can throw only the leader, or 5 feet of line with a thirty foot long Weight forward line and a single handed rod, you can throw only the leader and 5 feet of line with a spey line and a spey rod. That short and nothing needs to touch the water. 15 to 25feet of line? Anchor the leader and maybe a foot or two of line if you need to, but you don't need to do any cast. setup the leader on the water, REMEMBERING THE 180 DEGREE PRINCIPLE, and use the tip snap off a crisp, short stroke aerial roll cast.
I'm not saying it's HARD to throw short casts. It's just that sometimes you feel like you are flailing away with a line that is too light at shorter distances because the line is designed with the weight more in the line that is still on the reel.

Philster said:
Piece of cake. Juro is being incredibly generous. You are fortunate!
Yes, I'll definitely owe Juro a favor.

Actually, I'm hoping to see a CND rod in action. If they are as good as people say I may have to get one. Or at least help Juro sell some. :D
 

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Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
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No sales pitch, I just truly love to teach casting and the more you do it the more it teaches you.

I had the honor and privilege to teach with Simon G. and Greg Pearson last weekend at Sewells Falls and I have to say I loved the teaching part but learned a tremendous amount as well.

What a 'class act' these two, an honor really.
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Geoff...

I haven't seen Juro teach but I have seen him cast and to a "spey duffer" like me it was pretty amazing. I think your time on the river will definately be worth your while.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
juro said:
No license required for practicing. 8 or 8:30a

Parking lot in on the left bank, walk down the road a few feet and take the fire road to the shore.

You will need waders.
Just got back from the local Orvis store with some waders. (Yes, I didn't own a pair of waders.) Before anyone gives my guff about buying Orvis Clearwater waders, it was that or Walmart waders.

Unless it is pouring rain I'll see you Sunday about 8-8:30am. I may hit the Squanacook after for a little trout fishing. :D

Oh, and I don't mind a little sales pitch... I am interested in hearing more about the CND rods... (But also realize that I've spent more than I can afford on fishing stuff. Well more than my wife thinks we can afford. :whoa: )
 

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Junkyard Spey
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Hey Geoff...

Before anyone gives my guff about buying Orvis Clearwater waders,
There is nothing wrong with the waders you bought as long as they do the job they're supposed to. Some of the most expensive brands out there have been known to leak at very inappropriate times. Have fun!
 

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Skidrow Woolley Fly Club
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MJC said:
Some of the most expensive brands out there have been known to leak at very inappropriate times.
Can't think of any appropriate time for waders to leak myself :chuckle:
 
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