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Discussion Starter #1
Hello! I'm new to this board...seems very informative w/some very knowledgeable folks. I look forward to contributing.

Here's my dilema: I'm trying to choose between a Scott ARC versus Scott LS2 seven weight spey. Any advice/experiences/recommendations versus these two.

Regards,
Mike
 

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chrome-magnon man
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Welcome!

Hi Mike--welcome!

The LS2 rods are so new that not many folks might have spent time with them. I hope Scott Pro Staff Way Yin will be able to offer his insights.

Also, stay tuned as we will soon be auctioning a LS2!
 

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Howdy Mike,

I have fished both the 1287 ARC and the 1307 LS2 a bunch and both are great rods. I think that the 1287 is the best rod in the ARC line so it holds it own with the new rods. The LS2 is a lot lighter in the hand and casts very well with all sorts of lines long and short. The ARC has a little more beef and power in the butt with a little softer tip. My go to line for both rods is a 6-7 midspey but when messing around with Skagit style lines for tips the ARC wanted a lot more grain wt. I favor the LS2's across the board except in the 7 wts. you couldn't go wrong with either.

Hopefully you can try them both out to see which will work best for you.

Greg
 

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What about 1509 ARC . I have heard that this one and 1287 are the best in ARC line.
What 1287 have that 1509 doesn’t?

How ARC 1509 stands against LS2 1408 and 1509.

I think Way Yin wrote on this board that 1509 requires extra effort only with Very Long casts . Well, I am curious what Way considers as a very long cast. For me very long cast would be 110 + feet, wile for Way could be 130 +

Which line ( Rio mid-spey or windcutter) did you used on each LS2 ( 1408 and 1509) rod ?


Thanks
Robert
 

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I have both the ARC 1287 an 1509 and love them both. The 1287 is my favorite rod and can throw floating and tips, long bellys and short and is a real joy to use.

The 1509 is a big stick and more tiring to use all day but casts wonderfully both short an long - I have both the 9/10 Delta and 9/10 xlt and both are great on this rod. The xlt cut back for tips is a gem - can reach out well over 100 feet with not much effort.

From what I have read from Way's posts, the 1509 LS2 is a bit more powerful and much lighter than the ARC and will reach out a bit farther without collapsing. Hope to play with these rods at the San Rafael show if Scott has them available
 

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Hey Mike

This is not as difficult as you mite think. I initiated a thread, asking for line recommendations on the ARC 1287. You'll find it in the rod archives, there was alot of hevy hitters voicing their opinions, worth a read.
I personally own the ARC 1287 and I have taken the path of many rods before arriving at the 1287. It is truly a great rod. Until we can get the LS's in the hands of the body of fisherman that creates a working history; your choice is easy. Stay with what brung ya to the dance...

Tom Hill
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you!

Thank you, gentlemen, for some great info/advice.

Mike
 

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Thank you Dana

Hello Mike:

This won't sound very articulate, but the LS2's and the ARC's have very different and distinct "feel", although both feel like Scotts. Comparing the LS2's with the ARCs is not like comparing apples to oranges, but more like Oranges to Tangelos.

I would echo Greg Pearson's post; he has spent a good deal of time on the water with both rods, and is a fantastic caster (and world class artist!). From a fishing standpoint, with the 7 weight, if my primary goal was MAXIMUM versatility, I'd give the nod to the 1287 ARC. It's simply an amazing rod. If you know you are going to be fishing pretty much 6 and 7 weight stuff and are focused on a super light rod that is balanced and easy to cast, prefer a rod with a slightly stiffer tip, and am budget minded, the LS2 might get the nod. I know I am lucky in that I can fish both, and enjoy the heck out of it!

Robert:

Thanks for your question. It's hard to say how one series stands against another; it's like trying to decide which kid you love the most. I think I've posted my impressions on how the 1509 ARC and 1509 LS2 differ, but I'm not very good at navigating and searching for specifics on the site. Basically, I think you will find the butt sections as well as the tip sections on the LS2's to be more robust, while keeping the weight to an absolute minimum. For max distance [by very long casts I mean more than 125 feet of line], I think the LS2 has an edge, but those that prefer a more sensitive tip will favor the ARC. Both will have no problem with sink tip fishing, and both handle a variety of lines well. As for Windcutters, I think the 8/9/10 balances best on the 1408 LS2, and the 9/10/11 on the 1509 (both ARC and LS2). I mainly fish an XLT, so perhaps Greg can offer more advice here. I know two Windcutter masters are Scott O'Donnell and Mike McKune...

Tom:

I hear ya. Hopefully, Scott will get caught up soon on their production backlog!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Rod choice...

In your experience, which would turn over large and cumbersome offerings more adequately...the ARC or the LS2? Also, how much of a difference do you feel at the end of the day regarding the extra ounce weight in the seven weight ARC versus the LS2? Thanks for your advice!

Mike
 

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Hi Mike,

At the end of the day the weight between the two 7 wts. is not a problem. Both are small, light rods with a lot of power. Recently i started trying to find the perfect Skagit line for each rod with the idea of fishing the biggest, heavy flies poss. on the smallest lightest rods. Both handled the big bugs once I found the right weight lines but the 1287 required one full line size heavier. It really has a lot of power in the butt and I would give it the nod if you want the rod mostly for that purpose.

It is maybee a bit silly to make it a part of the decision but I really like the grip and down locking reel seat of the LS2.

Robert,

My go to line, the line I am most familiar with is the midspey. I always try to start with a new rod with the midspey because it gives me a bit of consistency before trying other line combos. The midspeys that I like for the LS2 are...6/7 for the 1307, 7/8 for the 1408, and 8/9 for the 1509. The rods seem to me to be very true to line rating.

Way,

Thanks for the great compliments.

Greg
 

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Greg - curious what line combo you are using for your skagit system for the 1287 - length and grain weight?

Looking forward to the new skagit lines that Scott O and Mike M are working on for Rio. Will be fishing with Scott in late Feb (weather permitting) and hope the lines will be out by then

Best regards,
Rick J
 

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Rick,

I still need to do some work to fine tune a line for the 1287. I kind of stopped working on it to check out the new Rio lines (I found out they are shooting for an April 1st release date so I am going to get back on the project). I did get a lined dialed for the 1307 LS2, basically a windcutter 8-9-10 with the front 9' removed from tip 2. I thought this line would work for the 1287 and ws supprised that it didn't come close to loading the rod for easy Skagit casting. We tried a chopped line that was much heavier and it was in the ball park. I do not know the dimensions or weight of that line yet but will figure it out in the next few days and then start fine tuning and let you know. The heavier line made all of the difference and the cast came to life.

I know in the past you have mentioned fishing a fair bit with windcutters with the entire tip 2 removed. Which one did you like best on the 1287 and were you using sustained water loading cast or more traditional methods?

Greg
 

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Hi Greg - the first time I started using the WC with Tip 2 out was when I was fishing with Scott and Mike up on the Grand Ronde and they suggested it - was using an 8/9/10 WC and doing more traditional casts - it was definitely too light with tip 2 out to really water load the rod but it sure flew when you hit the timing right - prior to that time I was a pretty hard core long belly guy and really had to change my technique to get this short line to work. I can still hear Scott's voice ringing in my ear "HARDER!!" when I would overpower a cast with the short line!! Swtiching back and forth between the line types has really helped me improve my overall casting and understanding.

I am hoping that Scott will have some prototypes with him when I meet him in late February to hit some of the coastal Oregon rivers!!
 

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Greg - did some calcs. In a previous post a bit ago Scott O indicated that the new RIO lines will have a 27' belly and the 7/8 would weigh in at 450 grains (this without a tip)

The WC10/11/12 weighs 740 grains and tip 1 weighs 166 grains so if you subtract you get a line that is 39.5 feet long weighing 574 grains. If you cut this back to 27 feet and assumed the balance of the head was a constant weight, a 27 foot belly would only weigh 392 grains - still light compared to the new Skagit line. If you do the same conversion with the 11/12/13, you get a line coming in at 485 grains.

Seems if you wanted to try and match the shorter head you would need to play around with those two lines
 

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The weights are a little heavier than that.

In the WC 10/11/12 multi tip, the rear section is 25' long and weighs 395 grains. That includes the rear taper. The weight of the rear belly is around 16 gr/ft. If you add 2 feet (to reach 27'), the total is around 427 gr.

The WC 11/12/13 rear 25' weighs 480 grains (19.2 gr/ft). Add 2 feet to reach 27', the total is around 518 gr.
 

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Rio Skagit

Scott O and I exchanged e-mails today(I wanted some input on what rod to get next). Scott indicated the new Rio Skagit lines go into production Feb. 20. He really sounded stoked about them----words like "revolutionize" were used! He should know. Clyde
 

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Hi all,
What do you say about Scott #10 16'? Is this more powerfull than my T&T 1015-3?
I'm fishing on Kola peninsula in May and June. Usually fish 18-25lb, heavy flies 3-6gramm at the end of the extra super fast sinking shooting heads(Guideline sink 7) and no place for the good back cast!!! This is May.
In June I need long casts 120+ with floating or sink tip line.
In Way's reply I read about line combination 15'-17' 550 grain DEEP water Express and 20 ' T-14. How quickly it sink? Faster than Big Boy 600grain or Guideline sink 7?
And last question.
What difference between A2 #10 15' and LS #10 16'? I know what on Kharlovka Way was using proto A2 #10 15'6. Maybe A2 looks preferably than LS2 for sinking shooting head work and long casts?
Sorry, for my English
Jack
 

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Dear Jack:

The T&T 1510 is a lovely and very capable rod, and I have fished it for several years (Per Stadigh kindly lent me one a few years ago on the Rynda and East Litza). In my opinion, the T&T is not light for a 15 footer. In terms of action, I would say that the LS2 1610 is in the same general ballpark as the T&T (meaning on the faster side of medium). I think you will find both rods weigh the same, or perhaps the LS2 16 footer a tad less.

When Scott designed the LS2's I wanted a rod that would be equally comfortable casting short heads (for me a short head on a 16 footer is anything less than 60 feet from running line to the fly) as well as long bellies (i.e. SA XLT). I had the pleasure of fishing for a couple of years with some 15 and 15' 6" prototypes, both based off the ARC as well as A2 layups. My experience fishing on the Kola in the early season for the past five years suggests that this time is among the toughest on equipment - not only the fishing, but the constant hiking and breaking down of equipment and reassembly required when hopping in and out of a helicopter.

I love the 16 footer, but it is a 10 weight, not an 11 or 12 weight. I specifically had the North Kola and Thompson in mind while we were working through the prototypes - so in a way, Jack, the LS2 1610 was designed precisely for where you are going as well as when! I don't believe that you should have any problems hitting 120+ with either a shooting head or a long belly, and if you are fishing the Kharlovka, there aren't that many runs I'm aware of that require all casts to be that long. There are a couple of key early season runs on the Rynda (e.g. Dancing Platform, Green Rock) and the Litza (e.g. Upper Tent), where distance is a huge advantage.

Regarding how fast stuff sinks, in my experience, DWE 550 goes down a fair bit faster than T14 or LC13, I have not fished a big boy 600 grain tip of the Guideline type 7. I would imagine that these sink quite fast. Unlike our Scandinavian colleagues, the steelheaders I know tend to fish floating bellies and sinking tips rather than a full sinking head, although I have enjoyed fishing a full sinking head. Just what we're used to, I guess.

In comparing the LS2 1610 to the A2 1510, the LS2 is clearly a more versatile rod. On the other hand, if all you are doing is shooting head fishing, the A2 1510 would be a great choice. It is quite a bit more "underhand" oriented than the LS2. Distance wise, I'm better with the LS2 (even more so than my beloved 15 ' 6" proto) with my style, but I think a good underhand caster will get comparable distances with a A2 1510. Again, if you are planning on using a longer belly line, the nod would go to the LS2.

Because the environment in Russia in the early season is hard on rods, I would definitely recommend taking AT LEAST one spare. Three years ago, I broke three rods in one week. Last year was the first year I didn't break anything.

I hope to see you over there this year!
 

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Thank you, bubba

Yes, Kola is one of the best Atlantic salmon region in the world, but we(who live in Russia) do not have a chance fishing in very expensive camp, like Kharlovka&Litsa, for example.
For realy big salmon we go on rivers located near Murmansk. The best choice - Kola river. But this fishing has one problem-many guys on the river. But this factor give you a chance to confirm your fishing mastery. This river have several secret places, where you do not see other guys during a week. I can help you organize friendly trip undersell than commercial, if interesting. Send me your e-mail and I can send you several photos from our Kola trips and information.
About full sinking heads. Yes, they have bad control, but goes down faster than all sink tip combination in the short belly configuration(40-50'), which I know. If you knows the same lines, I gratefully use your secret!
After your words about difference between A2 and LS2, I will be take #10 A2 for spare(or T&T for spare) and LS2 #9 for dry line configuration.

Jack mail to: [email protected]
 
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