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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,
I've just got hold of a couple of 11/12 Guideline Powertaper heads (S1/S2 and S4/S5) and an 11/12 Rio SSH floater for use on my Meiser 13x13 beach rod. I'm happy tweaking the length/weight by cutting little bits from the rear of the heads to suit my casting style but hope someone may be able to advise me on cutting the front tapers. I'm going to be using big poppers (6-8" long with 3/4" diameter heads), Conomo specials etc and remember reading somewhere that cutting 2-3 feet from the front on the Rio heads can really help turnover. The Powertaper heads have a radically different taper to the Rio heads so do I cut even more from the front of these? It has taken me ages to track down these Powertaper heads so I'm loathed to take the scissors to them before I know what I'm doing!
Thanks in advance
James
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Thanks!

Thanks Peter & mjyp,
I was planning on using the floating Rio SSH for the biggest of the poppers so I'll keep it intact for now and see what happens. This is all virgin territory for me at the moment. I've always used single handed 10 & 12 weights with full lines or heads (the new RioMax heads are great) but am getting addicted to the world of the double-hander.
Yep - I've heard great things about that Powertaper s1/s2. There is a new floater with clear int tip that I fancy trying as well.
I basically went for the Rio and Powertaper heads in 11/12 as they were the heaviest I could find. I haven't actually received my Meiser rocket-launcher yet but by all accounts it just devours grains.....short of going for a tournament casting line and cutting it back a bit these heads seem to be the best options.
thanks for your advice.
James
 

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If the Meizer rod is the Claymore 13 X13, I'm not sure you are going to want to touch those Heads. In fact you may want to add 10 to 15 feet of 16 weight to the ass of those heads. The 11/12's in the Scan and Guideline run about 850 grains at 45 feet uncut. You may need to bump those up to about a 1000 grains. Meiz would have to advise me on this to be sure, but if it isn't the Claymore, it may be a tad slower and handle the 850 grains a lot better.

The five guideline heads I have, I trimmed to around 700 grains to work another rod. I wished I would have just ordered the lighter head and kept them at full length because the power tapers are such sweet heads. Their tapers allow some of the greatest turnover. I have since re-attached the parts I cut and will use them later on another Meiz rod, the 15' fast overhead rod. I have only just begun to test this rod, but I am thinking 850 to 900 grains for overheading, 1100 for Spey casting. At 15 feet, I am finding that a 140 foot cast is easy to do. 120 feet is even easier on the back and requires way less effort than a 13 foot rod. It also is a lot easier to get sinking tip or full sinking heads out of the water.

I am also starting to think that these farther distances may require a windmaster like taper. Even the guideline heads with their great turn over, seem to fall apart at these distances. Now the Scan head is a better taper for tuning over heavier flies.

I have only just begun to test this system, but I am actually beginning to think once I develop my casting technique for greater than 140 (straight line path in the extreme on the forward cast) 115 feet of slickshooter line may not be enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Matt,
I was hoping my post might attract your attention, so thanks for posting advice. Yep - the rod is the 13x13 saltwater model (tip loading ~600 grains, butt loading ~1200), with a few minor tweaks. At the moment it's still in transit & I can't wait to take it out and start playing with these heads.
I was probably jumping ahead of myself by thinking about cutting heads. Of course I'll wait to see how they cast before I even think about hacking bits off ....or splicing bits on.
Meiz also recommended a 12/13 windcutter with tip 2 removed...have you tried going down that route?
I've got a couple of spools of 50lb slickshooter but have also just finished stuffing 50lb bionic braid up 35lb Gudebrod braided mono. Stuffing ~140 feet of that is possibly the most boring job in the world but here's hoping that it behaves itself in the stripping basket and helps to nullify any problems with line stretch.
Tight lines
James
 

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James,

I haven’t tried any of the WC’s with tip 2 removed, but I’m thinking it may still be light for that Claymore. Stuffing braid inside of braid sounds like you have been talking with Max G. Sure would like to meet that guy, he has a lot of great ideas for overhead casting. This is such a great area to be experimenting with. I wish I had a couple thousand to blow so I could buy a ton of line and one rod. I could spend a year building heads until I have the right combo to come up with a fishable system. I will be watching your progress intently.

Right now I’m adding 13 feet of floating line to the ass of a Scan head with tips. The target is 50 feet at 900 grains all spliced to some 50 pound slickshooter. I’m heading out tomorrow to try it on the this Meizer 15 foot test rod. If it does what I think it will do, I’ve got to work a couple extra shifts so I can order this rod from Meiz. Stay in touch and email me.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Matt,
yep - that stuffed line was one of Max's ideas. The finished line looks the business (I've yet to cast it!) but I was beginning to wish I hadn't started it after the first 15 hours of stuffing! :Eyecrazy: The first 50-60 feet are easy but once you go much past that it takes ages to stuff even a few feet more gelspun up the braid. And with all that rubbing the needle-gelspun connection broke down twice......I turned the air blue when that happened!
I think Max has now moved to his stuffed line Mk II, which is hollow gelspun stuffed with mono.
I'll of course post a report of how I get on in the world of overhead casting.
The other option for a really monstrous head would be to take a Scientific Anglers T120 competition line and cut it to length. I've used 115 gram of this on a 17 foot tournament rod and it will fly to the horizon (200+ feet, and much more in the hands of an accomplished caster) but has a weak core from what I've been told. I guess it could be inserted into some sort of braid to provide a bit of strength but I'm not sure what that would do to the aerodynamics.
All exciting stuff!
cheers
James
 

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I have the 13x13 and found that the Scan head(11/12) cut to 26' with 18'- 21' of T-14 great for spey casting. A 850g DWE really rocked for overhead casting, but the straight floating Scan 11/12 did not feel quite right for distance overhead casting, my impression was that it was too long for that style of delivery.
speydoc
 

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Speydoc,

What is a DWE? I've been playing with different lengths of head now too. I thought 50, 55 or even 60 might me the cure. Man, they suck. Now I know why most heads come around 45 and shorter for for sink tip comp middle and tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Speydoc,
have you also tried the Loop Custom Express heads in 750 or 900grains?

Matt,
I just heard back from Leif Stavmo re. cutting the front taper on the Guideline heads and here are his thoughts:
"The S1/S2 and the S4/S5 heads are already powerful in the fronts, due to the higher
density of the sinking tips. Try them out first without cutting them. You will
notice that they dont taper up so radically back from the front, due to the fact
that we want them to penetrate water and sink to the true rating, thus, it wont make
a huge difference cutting them back. A floater with a more traditional front taper
responds much quicker to cutting back a foot or so.
Anyway, the two heads you have really kick butt when casting them (especially the
S1/S2) so, have fun...".


Tight lines
James
 

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Matt I am glad to see you found out that the longer heads are more a pain then they are worth. 38' - 45' is a good range I have found. Any shorter they blow up past 100' and any longer they are just too hard to fish with. Will have to get a guideline for the atlantis cause it sounds like they are the best out there.

-sean
 

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Dwe

Matt, I think DWE is Deep Water Express, one of the SA fast sinking options.
 

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Mat
DWE is, as posted above, a Scientific Angler "Deep Water Express" - 30' with a sink rate of about 10" per second, it casts realy well on the 13x13 but sinks a bit too fast for most fishing situations that I have encountered for Chinook.
Jamesws
I unfortunately cannot get any of the Loop lines up here in B.C.
speydoc
 
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