Spey Pages banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just finished building a St. Croix 7/8 13' to take with me to the beach, and fool around with, but I am not happy with it so far.
I was hoping to be able to cas much further then what I have been casting. But from reading I think I should put shooting heads on it???? I have 7/8 Airflo delta spey line on it, but I don't think that spey casting will work.... I don't know go to over head casting? Change lines to shooting heads? Get a quicker rod? If so which? Looking for a cheap rod to build. Lamiglass blanks say they are fast action. But the rods that are built say medium action....
So I am really confused. Any suggestions would be muchly appreciated.
T
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
I am familiar with that rod, and it's not really meant for saltwater use the way most people fish saltwater. What I mean specifically is it's a slower full flexing and comparatively less powerful light river spey rod, whereas those who seek distance in saltwater are really in need of a completely different tool. They need a powerful, light and responsive two-handed rod that overhead casts easily for distance.

I am working currently with CND Japan to finalize a series of two-handed surf fly rods. These rods provide the two-handed advantages in overhead casting with a single-handed price tag. I've just received the 2nd generation prototypes and frankly, I am amazed by them.

I may eventually be able to provide one for you to field test for a while in exchange for your feedback.

I'll contact you offline on the details.

Juro
http://cndspey.com (sponsor)
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Cool! Didn't know you were out on my stompin' grounds with dat' thing! ;)

I've been working with two-handers in the surf for about 8 years now and I agree, that's definitely not the right tool for the job. A couple of months ago my experiments took a major jump ahead with the arrival of new CND surf flyfishing prototypes on my doorstep. I just caught the end of the spring migration (late season, luckily) and the flats sight fishing was on fire.

http://www.chathamangler.com//channels/reports/2003/1056976537/index.htm

Since then, I have received new prototypes for both the all-arounder which takes the common 9wt-10wt reels and lines everyone already owns and extends the two-handed benefits to them.

I've also received the gen II surf-taming 11x11 which is far improved over the first prototype and definitely ready for final field testing before production tweaks.

I would argue that it's one of the best surf flyrods ever made. Of course it's one of the ONLY flyrods ever made specifically for fishing the surf:devil:

These are all designed for overhead casting with two-hands.

The CND site www.cndspey.com (sponsor) will be updated with gen II testing results soon if anyone is interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Since you already built that rod, I would second the idea of trying some standard WF fly lines on it, not spey lines, especially if you already have them.

That is a very slow rod, but you should still be able to cast it further than your one hander, it is just a matter of finding the right line combos to get it loaded, and practice, practice practice.

Mistake number one when going to long rods is usually throwing very large loops. Work on shortening up your speed-up-and-stop at the end of the casting stroke, and see how small you can make those loops.

Also, the majority of the cast is made with the lower hand, the upper hand just guides the cast.

On a scale of slow-to-medium, I would rate those St. Croix's as, " Lumbering." This makes it harder to consistently throw tight loops, but maybe not impossible.

Juro, do you have a retail price on that new surf stick yet? I am confident that it is going to be one of the two-best surf fly rods yet made!
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Hi Jay -

Tried to call but couldn't leave a msg a few days ago. I have the gen II rods, getting much closer if not already there :) I'd like to get your opinion but it might be after Denver before I can really take them to the test in the big surf. Final retail not yet set, I am sure I will discuss this at length with Nobuo over the next two weeks.

Migration season will be hard-hit for sure though! Peabunker coming by in waves on the backside over the weekend. Lost count of the fish my client caught yesterday. Still some flats action as well, although the scale has tilted with the biomass to the bunker's favor.

Peter -

I'd like to hook up but might not be able to break away while you're in town due to Denver show prep duties but you never know... you'll have a good minus tide on Joppa Flats mid-morning. It would give you right-bank like conditions and although there are limited places to actually spey cast in striper fishing the channel edge at Joppa is certainly one of them. Hope you have a light west wind!

Another option would be to bring a high-density line and overhead cast to fish deep in the outgoing tide current from the PI parking lot to the mouth, then fish the inside corner on the right side of the jetty on the flood with an intermediate line.

They like sand eel patterns and baitfish patterns just fine, more of a matter of finding where they are holding up.

For a change of pace and solitude, try the very end of the PI Wildlife Refuge. Beautiful beach there with good fishing when the tide starts to rip. I do best with sand eel patterns close to the bottom on a hi-density sinking line there. It's mostly sand, very few snags.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
How about the temple forks spey rods? Are the action fact enough on them for the beach? Although I would imagine that the CND is a much better rod.

Tony
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
I recently got to try one and the short answer (in my opinion) is... no. They are, like other Spey rods, made for spey casting.

Although some situations warrant spey casting in coastal eastern flyfishing, most are overhead casting situations, especially surf. Can you imagine trying to get an anchor in 4 foot surf? :eyecrazy:

Single spey with a 10" grocery fly? :chuckle:

In a nutshell, spey rods are good at spey casting. There's no better way to work a river bank for steelhead or salmon, and if that's what you plan to do for stripers, fantastic! yet eastern coastal surf demands a more robust overhead casting system than the traditional single handed buggy whipper, and that's what I am talking about with these new rods.

The two gen II prototypes I just received are in the 9/10 weight (can handle an 11wt intermediate in grass trials) and the second is an 11/12 weight that feels comfortable for all day distance casting with a tarpon line in the guides (the other hand makes it easy). Big flies, no problem. Big fish - bring them on!

I hope I can get models out for people to play with ASAP! They will be premiering at the Denver International Retailer's Show in September along with other CND models.
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
If you fish Joppa it might be best done with a local Forum member. Hop over to the striper board under www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk and mention you'll be in town and you might get a 'bite'. It's standard practice for forum members to show visiting members around home waters. Afterall, secrets are safe as soon as the visitor goes home! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
options....

Hell, what do you need a spey rod for or an overhand casting rod....I use my 9' 10wt and can cast an entire WF line easliy, or shoot a shooting head and full running line like it is nothing. A overhand casting two hander might be a nice tool, but I wouldn't take it to the surf unless I needed too.

Here in Michigan for surf's up steelhead/salmon I use a single hander when searching for shoreline cruising fish and staging fish on the flats, and then my Loop Green Line fast action 14' 9wt for pierheads and deeper channels with Levithan 600-700 grain shooting heads. Other than that, I don't need a spey type rod for overhand casting.

Another thing is that when I am flyfishing the surf and flats, I like a crisp, fast action rod that recovers quick and makes tight loops. A spey or even a longer, faster progressive action rod loads too far into the butt to do so. I rather have a single hander or a euro type spey rod over a traditional rod such as a CND or similiar model. On the river, it is a different story.

Juro, demands are up on the CND's....we gotta talk soon!
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Hi Dan,

Sorry - only reason I haven't called is I've been tied up, I will catch up this week.

Two-hands in the surf?

Situation: 4 foot pounding surf, 10-12" bait, 20-30# stripers. Fish are pushing the bait around quickly in the mess, more casts == more fish. Wind blowing very hard from the rod shoulder side. Fish are 100 feet from shore.

Unusual? Nope, quite common here on the atlantic coastline especially in spring and fall.

Single hander - fly too big for the line weight; rod too light for the fish. Unless you're an exceptional backhand caster, you aren't going to reach these fish in this wind. Waves soaking you from head to toe, stripping basket full of water.

Two-handed overhead surf-tamer rod - 11/12 weight is like casting an 8/9 wt all day. Big flies no problem. With a reverse or left-hand cast 100 is well within reach even in the howling wind. Casts take 3-5 seconds each using the beach cast technique. 30# fish - feels good on that big surf stick, plenty of rod for the big girls.

Around here, when things get "big" a single hander is like showing up with a knife at a gunfight. A spey rod belongs on a river or at best a running tide inside an inlet somewhere, it's too limber for the calesthenics out on the slop line. Many have to leave their buggy whips behind and get the spin gear out... not with a flyrod specifically desiged to "cope".

I'm pretty excited about the gen II prototypes!

:smokin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
me too can't wait to see it. Out here surf if often much higher then that. Great for a surf board. But at low tide it often cools down to 3-5 footers. Anyhow, I was down where a "river" goes into the ocean, and I saw a ton of fish out there. To far for my rod to reach, but the fish were all over, wish I had my surf board, I saw fish jumping 5 feet from the surfers. But I think it would have been tuff trying to haul a rod on a surf board. I brought my wife along and we sat on the jetty and watched the 100's of fish jump out there as the sun set. It was awesome night.

also you said that you were running a tarpon line on the rod? Sink tip/Floating? How about a multi tip like wind cutter? Just intrested. Even if you can't get me one to try this is probably the rod I will want.
T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
for what it's worth, chico fernandez (yes, THE chico fernandez) does a ton of striper fishing. he swears by the scott SAS 1409 (he feels the 1510 is too much rod, although he can cast a mile with it), and for smaller stripers, he prefers the ARC 1287.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Is the action fast enough for my needs? Anyone ever use one?

Now with these cast well doing spey casting? As peter-s-c asked.

T
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
I had noticed that his profile on the Scott website says "lately he's been fishing two-handers in the surf", but it does not list the models. Interesting, but I have to wonder if he uses those rods because he is on pro staff with Scott, or uses them because they are the best tool for the job? I'd venture to say that if Scott made a different rod for the purpose we are discussing here, specifically designed for this purpose as are these new rods, then I'd bet he would not compromise with the spey rods you named for fishing heavy surf.

I'm on CND staff and have been guiding for stripers on the Cape Cod coast for many years. As a result I have several outstanding Spey rods available, and 8 years of two-handed experimentation on the beach. But I don't use spey rods in the surf... because they are not the right tool for the job when it comes to surf fishing for striped bass, and putting all commercial interests aside those Scott rods sure as heck aren't either (with all due respect).

Like you Way, I put years of work into developing something new for the industry. I ain't no Einstein and I'm a big fan of Chico's but I know what works for our conditions and gamefish, and a spey rod is not the best tool for the job, no matter what brand!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
your right. I was looking at their website and they claim to me medium-fast action. I have never cast one the only one is my St. Croix, snall.
You said that their was two rod on the market, CND and which other? Just courious. I believe you just trying to get the range of opinions.
t
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
To be clear, CND's new saltwater line of rods will not be on the market officially until all prototype testing is complete. Our goal is to have the Atlantic series available by the time the big fall migration is fully underway on the Atlantic coastline. Our Pacific rods will soon follow, but if Leland has his way it will be sooner!

From start to finish, these are purpose-driven rods!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
my apologies. I misspoke. We are in new 2 hander teritory. Hoping to go down to Baja This winter/spring to go after Roosterfish. I am not trying to offend you.
Anyhow, talk to you later.
T
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Heck no, none taken whatsoever! I just was trying to be clear is all.

In fact... I would love to have you guys test the rods on roosterfish. I was just telling a friend how much I thought the rods would be perfect for the job yesterday, ironically.

Hmmm... winter/spring is a good time for me to get away from the northeast's bitter weather.... :devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Maybe we can hook up.... we will see what our schedules looks like. Maybe even a few others could be "dragged along".....
T
 

·
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
Joined
·
1,771 Posts
Rooster clave! Oh man would that be awesome. I hear Baja is quite affordable as well.. any truth to that?
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top