I just got back from 8 days of fishing the new Sage 8136. Great rod. I was fishing a BC river that the average cast is 50-80 feet and we fish both dry line and tips. I used Windcutters and tried three sizes, 678,789 and 8910 to get a feel for the rod. By changing the style of your cast it handled all of the lines well but I did prefer the 789. The rod is quicker then other Sage rods in the traditional line and had plenty of back bone to punch out large, lead eyed intruders. Very easy rod to cast in a nice medium size.
Let me know if you get a chance to try one so we can compare notes. Greg
I haven't had my hands on one yet and with the way it has frozen up here, I probably won't until spring. From your description it sounds like it is about half way between the Traditional and Euro action rods? How would you compare it to the Loop Blue or Green rods.
I had a chance to cast my friend's new 8136 with 7/8 xlt (uncut) last weekend. it is a sweet rod, "very smooth", and it is light (I like it very much). About it is action, to me, 8136 is in between sage european and trditional or in other words, it is a bigger version of 6126. It has power to push line 100' out with a nice turnover.
I fished one on the Dean a bit this past summer...threw some big "5 inches of fun" flies easily....George Cook had a prototype...fished type 6 tip easily...I think the line was a 8/9/10 windchucker...seems to be the new trend...light but powerful eight weights under 14 ft..
Now I have a couple in shop..sold one already...really before it was even here...like pulling teeth getting one in time...
Yep, I know both rods well and I don't like either of them because they are both too soft in the mid-section and the Sage is way too slow for my tastes. The T&T 1509's soft mid-section makes it a less powerful casting tool the the T&T 1409, and I think that is a shame. I really want to see T&T redisign the 1509 in the way they redisigned the 1309, which used to have the same soft mid- section problem the 1509 has. Since the 1309-4 and redesigned 1309-3 have come out, the 1309 is now a rod that I like as much as my 13 ft GLX.
A redesigned 1509 in both a 3 piece and a 5 piece would be a winner IMHO. I keep waiting for it to happen. I love my T&T 1510-3 and 1611-3, am going to get my wife the 1307 and 1309 (maybe I can talk her into the 1409 but she likes shorter 2-handers) as soon as I can.
The rod that comes closest to what I would like was the old Loomis IMX 15' 8/9 (IMX 1808/9). I still keep hoping that T&T will redesign the 1509 with more power in the mid-section, Loomis will produce a 15' 8/9 GLX, Loomis will bring back the 15' IMX 8/9 or some other rod manufacturer will produce a fast-action, powerful butt 15' 8/9, and 4 or 5 piece would be an assest although not necessary.
From browsing this board, I know of your preference for faster action rods. That being acknowledged, I think that the Scott 1509/4 ARC fits the bill for a moderate fast action 15' 8/9 wt. spey rod. More of a 9 weight rod in my opinion, and leaning more towards the moderate end of the spectrum. Very nice progressive action, that in my opinion is the finest 15' -9 weight I have owned, and/or cast.
Can we take a moment to acknowledge the existance of the Sage 9150? It may not be exactly what you're looking for. It's merely a handy four-section "light magnum" with a crisp, responsive medium-fast action, suited for all but the heaviest duty spey fishing.
Yes, you did read medium to fast action. I simply stated why I do not like the ones you mentioned. I have not found one with the power that I think it should have. A 15' 8/9 should have the same power that the T&T 1409 has. The rods you mentioned do not have this power.
I've cast this rod and I find it lacking in power. It is far too easy for me to over power it because the mid-section doesn't have enough beaf to it. It is also certainly not a fast-action rod. Fast for Scott yes; but it is only moderate compared to T&T, GLX, Loop Green Series, and CND Specialist. I also found it to be more of an 8 wt than a 9 wt. I had a very difficult time not overloading it when I cast a 9 wt (8/9) spey line on it. It was much better for me with a 7/8 spey line.
The Sage 9150-4 feels to me to be a slightly faster 8150-4 with a different model designation on it. It doesn't have the power of the T&T 1409 or the Derek Brown 8/9 (a rod I like but feel is over-priced at $895.00) with an action that I would term a bit on the slow side of medium; therefore, I don't consider it to be a light magnum. It is a fine rod for those who like slow rods and those who are not looking for a rod to toss long belly lines on all day long. However, those of us looking for a rod that can toss the long belly lines all day to whatever distance we may wish, the Sage 9150-4 wimps out.
Absolutely, The Sage 9140-4 is really a noodle that is to say the least slooowwwwww. The Sage 9150-4 (or it older redition the 8150-4) is a much different rod. However, it doesn't like long belly lines and is really in its own element with the short belly lines like the Windcutter. Its not liking the long belly lines and it on the slow side of medium action (the 8150-4 was a little slower) are why I do not like it.
Have you had an extended chance to throw the Salar Specialist with either the XLT 7/8 or Grandspey 7/8? From the time I have spent FISHING this rod with both lines, I believe this is exactly what you are looking for. Does not have the soft mid of the T&T 1509 (it's saving grace in my opinion making it a fishing rod rather than a tournament casting tool), is actually lighter in weight than the T&T 1509, and has the juevos to carry the long belly lines ALL WEEK with minimal fatigue. It is very tough to overpower with the XLT 7/8, even casting extreme distance. Cut the line back in the mid 20's and it will carry the tips you like to throw on your favorite Grandspey. But since you like the T&T1611 for winter, why not stick to a dry XLT 7/8 for summer work on the Salar?
Use the heavier XLT 8/9, or Grandspey 8/9, and it entirely changes how this rod casts. Kind of like the difference between using a long belly line (XLT 8/9, or even XLT 7/8) on the T&T 1509 and a midspey 8/9.
If you get a chance, try the Salar with the XLT 7/8, your original opinions might change. Mine certainly did.
I fear this is one of those Ford v. Chevy things with each having their own opinion and sticking to it.
I would agree with Flytyer that the 1509-4 ARC is more of an 8 weight than a nine and not very fast actioned either. The 1510-4 is more of a true nine in my opinion.
I also echo Inland on the the Salar Specialist liking the 7/8 Grandspey. This combination really rocks if you like a faster feel to your rods. He is dead on that the rod has a totally diff. feel with the 8/9. Not sure I would ever call the Salar an 8 weight though. I think it probably is a true 10 but that progressive CND action allows a wide range of line weights.
As for the 1509-3 T&T and the 8150-4 Sage, I own both and love each in its own way. I am not sure I would want to see the T&T firmed up as I think it would take away from the ease of casting it from dawn till dark. The 8150 is not a fast rod compared to others but it has a great feel to it and I still enjoy taking it out from time to time.
I was speaking with the Sage folks last month and the topic of a 15' #8 came up. Their answer was there is not a demand for it. One said that he always hears what a great rod the 8150 was but that they were discontinued because nobody was buying them. It seems unlikely Sage will be putting out a 15' 8 anytime soon.
I have cast the CND Salar with an 8/9 GrandSpey and an 8/9 XLT and did not like it with either of them because they slowed it down quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, it has a wonderful feel and is nice and light in the hand, it was just too slow for my tastes with the 8/9 longbelly lines. I have not cast it with the 7/8 long belly lines, perhaps that is the way I should go, especially since I like the CND rods overall as moderate to moderately fast-actioned 2-handers.
You are right, it is one of those Ford v Chevy things. Some of us like fast, pregressive rods, and others like more moderate or even slow rods.
I have heard the same thing from Sage regarding a 15 ft 8 wt. In fact, when I have asked for faster-actioned 2-hand rods than they currently make, I have been told that they have almost no requests for a faster rod. I was also told that the Euro-action 2-handers of theirs are already fairly fast (seems Sage terms medium-action 2-handers as fast). And the Sage 9150 feels to me like a bit stiffer 8150 (which was the only one of the traditional Sage 2-handers I liked the feel of, even though it was slow, it was not a noodle), in other words, an 8 wt and not a 9 wt rod, not a bad rod, just too slow and lacking in power for casting long bellies..
I don't consider the T&T 1409 a super-fast rod, it is just a fast-action rod. The T&T 1510 (which I own) is a wonderful fast-action 9/10 wt, and the T&T 1409 is another wonderful fast-action rod in 8/9 wt. All I want is a 15 ft 8/9 wt that has the same progressive, fast-action casting qualities as the T&T 1409 and 1510. T&T did this with the 1309 when they introduced the 1309-4 and redesigned the 1309-3 to match the 1309-4's action. It should be fairly easy for them to do this with the 1509.
They are around. There just ain't enough of them that you can get your paws on to try them out.
For grease line work, the old 8150 with a 7/8 XLT line works for me. Had that line been available when the 8150 was still in production, there may have been more demand for it. Hint, hint, Sage (or anyone else) can you hear me now?
There are, in addition to the few 15 ft 7/8 wt rods out there, quite a few 15 ft rods rated for 9, or 10 wt lines. Usually meaning short or mid bellies. If you put a 7/8 or an 8/9 XLT or Grand Spey line on them can you call them 8 weights? :eyecrazy:
Hell, as long as we're wishing let's make it a good one. Like, how about a shop that stocks every Spey rod known to man,,,and has a river right out back so we can try before we buy? Actually,,,,I do know of a few shops like that. They just aren't too close to me.
Mark Bachmann is pretty close as an answer to your wish and you won't even have to leave Oregon. Your retired, get in your new fishing car and head North to pay him a visit. I've forgotten how many different models of spey rods he has but is one hell of a lot with plenty of knowledge to go along with it, and a forum sponsor to boot. Sounds like a good deal to me.
"Wild $teelhead C&R gives me a thrill, why don't we all make it the drill"
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