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Discussion Starter #1
I was just informed that I had won a free UST line of my choice and I have to admit, I know nothing about these lines. With a gazillion options I'm at a loss for which one to select.

I'm pretty well set for all my rods and don't see any need to change from my go to lines (mostly CND GPS or Carron Jetstreams). The one rod that doesn't routinely throw one of those is a Meiser STM 1308 in which I have been throwing and really enjoying a WA55 7/8. I am intrigued though by the concept of the multi density lines and might pick up one of those options in the UST.

But what one?

Are these lines capable of turning over a sinking poly leader or lighter sinktip? If so the F/I/S2 or S3 sounds like an option. This would seem to be more like the Nextcast SF40.

If not then the full sink S2/S3 or the I/S2/S4 might be a better choice.

Help me out guys.
 

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They are intended to be fished with mono or fluoro leaders, not poly leaders or sink tips.
 

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Spey Is The Way
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This should be interesting, for me at least. A lot to learn. Kind of ties in with my own post here.
 

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I'm pretty jealous... wish I won a free $70 fly line!

Had my eye on these for awhile. Two I've been looking to try are the Hover/Int and Float/Int/S2. (most versatile for my fishing)

According to the Scientific Anglers website, it says:
- Designed for use with both conventional and poly leaders

Appear to be similar to the SalarFinder 45. Example:
- Sci Anglers 525gr= 38'
- SalarFinder 530gr= 35' in f2

It would seem odd to me the SF can fish 10' sinktips and not the UST given how close in length and taper... but until I get my hands on one I just don't know!

Since these have been available in Europe for quite some time hopefully we can get feedback from those who have actually used them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Leo,
I saw your post and was hoping to get my answer these but didn't quite. Hoping to get some feedback for both of us :)

Tom,
Yeah, didn't see this one coming and would have been happier with Nextcast WA or FF 70 but I will certainly try this one.
 

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Appear to be similar to the SalarFinder 45. Example:
- Sci Anglers 525gr= 38'
- SalarFinder 530gr= 35' in f2

It would seem odd to me the SF can fish 10' sinktips and not the UST given how close in length and taper... but until I get my hands on one I just don't know!
NextCast SF are designed as tip lines, when you buy one you get a belly section. For example SF45 13 in 530 gr is actually a little over 32' if I measured correctly. Add a 10' tip, you are at 42'. This is similar to the LTS lines.

Where are you getting the detailed specs for the SA UST lines? I can't find anything that specific online.

On the original question: First, two disclaimers. I'm certainly not an expert with this line class, though I have been playing with them quite a bit over the past year. Second I haven't fished (or even seen) the USTs, my experience is with NC SF and LTS III-S (which on paper sound similar to UST). But this is my experience, which could certainly use input from the experts.

If you are fishing and liking another floating system cut for tips, you might find the F/I/S2 to be redundant. I have an SF F2, doesn't get used much, gets squeezed out by by WA45s or 55s. One of the potential attractions of these lines is the different behavior in the swing, but, the ones with floating backs still get pushed around in the top current. The I/S2/S4 sounds similar to the LTS H13 which gets the most use from me. Enough density that the back section slices through the top currents and you get a nice even swing, but not so much you will be constantly wrapping rocks in uneven currents. The SF 13 with a heavy tip, say S6, would be similar to the S1/S3/S5 and only comes out when I want quite a bit of depth and/or in faster, heavier water, which is not that often. But hey maybe I'm doing it all wrong.
 

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I had not fish SA UST but this lines look very similar to the guideline 3d . I personally prefer FIS2 and FS2S4 I tried short poly leaders 6 /7 ft long and agree with the stated above this lines work the best with just your tipet 4 ft . If you are going to cast big weighted flies. I never thought it will be so much fun to cast a sinking line .it is very fine tune line .I fish this two lines on a 15 ft rod on hight water conditions tight loops great turn over very impress with this lines . the old 3d was a custom cut system that you cut from the back to adjust to your rod length . not sure if the the SA UST comes pre looped .on the other side the heavier density I fished the IS2S4 although was a lot easier to cast than a full sink level line ,I prefer the ones with the first 3rd floating .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Decision made

After pondering a couple of different configurations, I decided the one that I would likely use and was different from my WA with tips was the I/S2/S4.

Once it shows up I will give it a go and report my thoughts.
 

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Triple Density heads...

I haven't tried the SA heads yet but...
When fishing shooting heads-mostly out of a boat here in Michigan-( a common practice on our bigger, sandy-bottomed steelhead rivers here); I use Guidline Triple D heads with great success. The heads in 34'-40' configurations cast really nice off a platform such as a jet sled deck. I understand the new SA heads are very similar to the Triple D's. I rarely use poly-leaders with these heads-there really isn't often a need for it- they will turn one over, but you don't really need them-these lines really get down and track very well subsurface and it (a poly) doesn't seem to add much sink to the presentation. Just adjust the length of your leaders to suit the fly & water. I have caught fish on all the heads except the 3/5/7 because I don't have one...the I/2/4 is really the workhorse-I have a 9/10 cut to 38' @520ish grains and a 10/11 cut to 37'@570ish grains- these are for a Meiser S2H hybrid 13'6" 7/8. Great lines and if the SA's are as good you might really enjoy them. If you do add polys to the mix you may want to cut the head back a bit more to maintain ease of lift with the anchor/ load at the end of the swing.
Good luck and enjoy.:smokin:

Tight lines,
Tom
 

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I have a similar question about the UST lines..... I am thinking of adding a
I/S2/S4 but my dilemma is that I don't know whether to go with the 7/8 at 460 grns or the 8/9 at 525 grns. The rod being matched is a ACR 1327 Skandit. I've been throwing an Airflo Tactical multi-tip on the rod and the load is perfect. Just don't have the experience running full-sinking heads....
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

John
 

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SA triple d heads

Good call, 'tip. I think you will find the I-s2-s4 to be a real good choice for fishing water like the Mixer as I remember it from 30 years ago with good sized unweighted flies. That is the one I would have chosen to try out.
I have a little experience with the Guideline 3D heads; fished a F-H-I for a day on the Bulkley,and purchased a H-I-S3. Both cast nicely on my LeCie 13789 as supplied (540 [email protected] 44ft.) but the one I bought I cut to around 500 gr. @ 42' which works even better.
Curious about what a Meiser STM 1308 might be- I've never heard of that one.
Let us know how this works for you, please.
Cheers,
Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Chris,

Ah, the Mixer. That brings back good memories.

The STM 1308 is part of Bob's new Steelhead Master conversion series. The actual model I believe is the STM131608 as it is two rods. A 13' for 8 four piece and a 16' for 8 five piece. The top three sections are the same for both configurations. The but section is different and then for the 1608, there is also a second section.

I called Bob last Spring because I was interested in him building me a 13' or 13.5' for 8. He mentioned this combo as an option knowing a I was a big fan of the 1307-3 T&T. In his words, the 1308 was like the T&T on steroids. I was sold!

The 1308 is certainly as advertised and has been a great winter rod so far. I'm currently throwing a WA55 7/8 on it and Rio 15' tips from 8 weight type 3 and 6 all the way to a 10 wt type 8. It took me a little bit to find the right power application but once I did, this is a rocket launcher. I also have a 550 gr. SGS Skandi line at will go a mile.

The 1608 version has a much more laid back personality but is a pleasure to cast all day. The grain window is a bit lower on it and currently I'm liking a 7/8 CND GPS on it.

Rumor has it that Bob's new website will be up sometime and then these should be included along with the other new toys he debuted in the last year.
 

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regarding specs on the line

troutless- regarding specs on the UST, it's hard to believe Scientific Anglers doesn't list length of the lines on the web site!

The length is very similar to the SalarFinder and Guideline 3D. Given the expense of the SF ($100) and 3D ($160?) it will be nice to have an alternative in sinking scandi lines here in the US.

On the general topic of tips on a scandi, I think it's helpful to keep in context which line in the series is being used.

For example, I think we all agree if someone is using the floating UST and chooses to put a 10' polyleader on the end of it, the world will continue to operate just fine. (!)

(If a RIO AFS can handle a polyleader I have no doubt a line with the specs of the UST can handle one also.)

However, things change with the triple density sinking versions. I agree putting a sinking tip on the end of a 3D sinking line might be getting a little complicated.

If my math is correct, taking a 3D line and adding a tip... hmmm... wait a second, would that mean?
QUADRUPLE DENSITY (4D) TECHNOLOGY!!!1!1ONE!!

Those poor steelhead would never stand a chance :)
 

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I have a similar question about the UST lines..... I am thinking of adding a
I/S2/S4 but my dilemma is that I don't know whether to go with the 7/8 at 460 grns or the 8/9 at 525 grns. The rod being matched is a ACR 1327 Skandit. I've been throwing an Airflo Tactical multi-tip on the rod and the load is perfect. Just don't have the experience running full-sinking heads....
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

John
John,

I think you will be happiest with a 7/8 on that rod.


Zack
 

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So lets say I get the 525 grain F/H/I, what would I use for a leader and how long. Rod would be 13' 7' long. Thanks for any help.

Leo
 

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SA UST Lengths

I am anxious to try these new lines. Here are the lengths of the new UST lines SA emailed me.

6-7 wt.: 35'
7-8 wt.: 37'-1"
8-9 wt.: 38'-1"
9-10 wt.: 40'
10-11 wt.: 42'
 

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So lets say I get the 525 grain F/H/I, what would I use for a leader and how long. Rod would be 13' 7' long. Thanks for any help.

Leo
Use Fluorocarbon leader in 7-12'. FC sinks with a rate ca. 1.5'/sec, like intermediate.
 

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Sa ust 3d

I have ordered a 9/10 I S2 S4 head.... I'm thinking this will sing on my T&T 1510-5.
I have only tried a Guideline DDC 9/10 full length....; 640 gr. @ 44'.... on this rod for scandi style. It felt a bit too heavy, so I'm thinking 585 gr. in a more back weighted head is going to fly well.
I'll post again when I get a chance to see how well my theorizing translates to the real world:chuckle:

tight lines,
Chris
 

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I had an opportunity to look at several UST F-H-I; F-H-S3 and I-S2-S4 ( will try them soon). All are within several inches/grain within advertised spec. Finish is very nice, relatively low stretch core ( 7-9%). One thing is obvious that folks in SA and their fiends in Scandinavia during the design process had Rio ASF taper in mind.

Rio ASF( Steelhead) 7/8, 8/9 and 9/10 are only 1 foot shorter and obviously floating. Otherwise, the taper of F-I-S2, F-H-S3 and I-S2-S4at first glance similar. The heads have quite fine front and very continuos taper. The front 1.5-1.8m are finer then on similar GL 3D. The rear taper is very short ca. 6 inches and belly is ca. 9' long with the diameter of 8/9 I-S2-S4 belly changing only 0.04” between thickest part and 9' point ( from the rear). From that point, the diameter is dropping continuously toward the front. Clearly if one needs let say 490 gr head, pruning 35 gr would required only ca. 17" cut.

In case 8/9 F-I-S2, the average weight/foot of the front 3 feet is ca. 6.8 grain, 7.5 gr for F-H-S3 while I-S2-S4 is near 9 grains. No wonder some folks from Sweden or Norway need to cut2 feet form the front for bigger flies, specially in case F-I-S2. Otherwise the line is wind sensitivity during a longer cast, more common with fishing for Atlantic Salmon then Steelhead.

The diameter of 8/9 F-I-S2, just behind the front loop is only 0.038” and at 3 foot point is 0.040”. Definitely these lines do not need polyleader. as the front 4-5 feet acts as a polyleader. Short 3-5’ fluoro tippet/leader should suffice. What I hear form Scandinavia, is that are extremely easy to pick up form the water due to texture of the coating.

In case of Guidleine 3Ds the front and middle sinking parts are 10’ each, while on UST, the middle part is shorter 5-6’, so they sink slower then similar GL heads.
One thing which worries me is that when I-S2-S4 transitions form form S4 to S4 ( on 8/9 head S4 is 11' and S2, 5' long ) the taper over the first 3 feet of S2 increases slightly from 0.045 to 0.047" with a sharp transition form S4 to S2 ( a softer martial can be felt) . As a consequence of that, the weight/foot chances rapidly from 9.5 gr/foot to 7.5 gr/foot and reaches 9.5 gr/foot 3-4 feet further toward the rear of the head. That could result in unnecessary hinge during cast.

On GL 3Ds there is rapid increased in OD by 0.10" over 18 inches to compensate lost of weight ( gr/inch or gr/foot). On UST to compensate weight loss, when maintaining very gradual increase in OD, the transition from S4 to S2 should, in principle, occur over several feet with gliding density as content of tungsten decrease to maintain gr/foot and then slowly increase gr/foot density.

Anyone has already cast UST I-S2-S4 with a real normal size fly ?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My I-S2-S4 showed up yesterday. It is spooled up and ready to go. Local rivers are all closed but I might take it out tomorrow just for some casting as I'm curious what it casts like.
 
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