SA long bellied line
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The only line that Way indicated was ready is the #8. The other weight lines WILL NOT be boxed until Way believes they are ready.
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Great lines
Way and Steve had prototypes of the 7,8 and 9 at the Rogue River Clinic. They were really a great joy to cast - very forgiving and great for mending at distance. It was my understanding that the 9 was also a go but could be wrong. The 7 still needs testing but it was an incredible line on my Scott 1287.
I for one cannot wait for them to come out - the 7 an 9 will be two lines definitely on my list of must purchaces
Way and Steve had prototypes of the 7,8 and 9 at the Rogue River Clinic. They were really a great joy to cast - very forgiving and great for mending at distance. It was my understanding that the 9 was also a go but could be wrong. The 7 still needs testing but it was an incredible line on my Scott 1287.
I for one cannot wait for them to come out - the 7 an 9 will be two lines definitely on my list of must purchaces
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11,027 Posts
Rick's on the mark about the new SA's.
Had the chance to try the 7, 8 and the 10 WF additions of these Peach coloured lines. Best way I can describe how they will work for me is several of my existing lines (like the WC's) will quickly be put into "retirement."
These lines were a true advancement; not just "Oprah Make-over" of something else.
Impressive!!!!!
fe
Had the chance to try the 7, 8 and the 10 WF additions of these Peach coloured lines. Best way I can describe how they will work for me is several of my existing lines (like the WC's) will quickly be put into "retirement."
These lines were a true advancement; not just "Oprah Make-over" of something else.
Impressive!!!!!
fe
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3,620 Posts
Sa long belly lines
Way and Steve have spent a lot of time and effort cutting and splicing different lines to come up with something that works. Likewise, SA has also invested heavily in working with Way to perfect these lines. Naturally, SA would like to keep the knowedge gained by this reserch to themselves at least until the lines are on the market.
All of us that have been following the development of these lines know that the front taper is longer than usually found on other lines. And although the phrase " continuous taper" has been brought up from time to time, I am sure there is much more to it than that. Even the Wulff lines are not a simple continuous taper.
Just take anyone who has tried these lines word for it. They work. If you favor long line tehniques rather than cast, shoot and strip, then you need to try these lines.
Way and Steve have spent a lot of time and effort cutting and splicing different lines to come up with something that works. Likewise, SA has also invested heavily in working with Way to perfect these lines. Naturally, SA would like to keep the knowedge gained by this reserch to themselves at least until the lines are on the market.
All of us that have been following the development of these lines know that the front taper is longer than usually found on other lines. And although the phrase " continuous taper" has been brought up from time to time, I am sure there is much more to it than that. Even the Wulff lines are not a simple continuous taper.
Just take anyone who has tried these lines word for it. They work. If you favor long line tehniques rather than cast, shoot and strip, then you need to try these lines.
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1,771 Posts
Re: Sa long belly lines
Thanks for the reply JD...
I've spent a lot of time and money cutting and and splicing too but it didn't amount to anything!
I understand how they would want to keep things to themselves, this business is full of piracy by gold diggers. It would be foolish to reveal trade secrets before they're on the market, I know.
I just can't figure out what the differentiator is based on what I have read and I guess I am going to have to wait and see if I can figure it out for myself when they are out. I'd prefer not to take that route, as someone said fly fishermen are analytical in nature and this "word of mouth" testimonial is purely anecdotal and hard to quantify/qualify. I just don't get it.
I hope it's more than just stripping and shooting - I don't strip or shoot double taper lines, and they are the ultimate long line Spey experience. I also don't mind stripping and shooting when I need a heavy tip, the short aggressive head permits the use of tips and I catch more fish. There is no super long taper line that can handle the tips that the launcher setups can handle. It's a compromise for deep winter situations, I accept that and use both ends of the spectrum.
Taking a consumer advocate's view in a gear review forum mentality, the problem here is that there is no substance to the hoopla. Extended belly, little or no strip Spey lines have been around for years; Accellerator et. al. Is it an improved Accellerator design
Thanks for the reply JD...
I've spent a lot of time and money cutting and and splicing too but it didn't amount to anything!
I understand how they would want to keep things to themselves, this business is full of piracy by gold diggers. It would be foolish to reveal trade secrets before they're on the market, I know.I just can't figure out what the differentiator is based on what I have read and I guess I am going to have to wait and see if I can figure it out for myself when they are out. I'd prefer not to take that route, as someone said fly fishermen are analytical in nature and this "word of mouth" testimonial is purely anecdotal and hard to quantify/qualify. I just don't get it.
I hope it's more than just stripping and shooting - I don't strip or shoot double taper lines, and they are the ultimate long line Spey experience. I also don't mind stripping and shooting when I need a heavy tip, the short aggressive head permits the use of tips and I catch more fish. There is no super long taper line that can handle the tips that the launcher setups can handle. It's a compromise for deep winter situations, I accept that and use both ends of the spectrum.
Taking a consumer advocate's view in a gear review forum mentality, the problem here is that there is no substance to the hoopla. Extended belly, little or no strip Spey lines have been around for years; Accellerator et. al. Is it an improved Accellerator design
JDJones said:
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SA Lines
I don't know the actual specs but as has been mentioned, they are a continuous taper design with a long front taper that seems to help with turnover at distance. Besides DT lines that do not have a long front taper, there are only a few long bellied lines - the Accelerator and the TT lines. I truly love the Wulff TT lines for single handed rods but have not been impressed by their spey lines - they are much lighter in grain weight than most other spey lines and I have not had good success in getting them to load the rod. The Accelerator is around 85' and some do not like the power hinge in this line
The new SA lines have longer heads than even the Acclerator or TT lines - 95' or so. A previous post indicated why even have a line for 100' cast when you cannot control that cast. There are some waters where you can control and mend a 100 foot cast - these lines allow that. But they also cast very well off the tip with short 30' casts or intermediate 50 to 70' casts.
I admit that I have not used any traditional DT lines but I believe these are the only lines that match a DT for length of belly. Way indicated that they will eventually come out with multitip lines and indicated that the cut point would be around 25' back.
I don't know the actual specs but as has been mentioned, they are a continuous taper design with a long front taper that seems to help with turnover at distance. Besides DT lines that do not have a long front taper, there are only a few long bellied lines - the Accelerator and the TT lines. I truly love the Wulff TT lines for single handed rods but have not been impressed by their spey lines - they are much lighter in grain weight than most other spey lines and I have not had good success in getting them to load the rod. The Accelerator is around 85' and some do not like the power hinge in this line
The new SA lines have longer heads than even the Acclerator or TT lines - 95' or so. A previous post indicated why even have a line for 100' cast when you cannot control that cast. There are some waters where you can control and mend a 100 foot cast - these lines allow that. But they also cast very well off the tip with short 30' casts or intermediate 50 to 70' casts.
I admit that I have not used any traditional DT lines but I believe these are the only lines that match a DT for length of belly. Way indicated that they will eventually come out with multitip lines and indicated that the cut point would be around 25' back.
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114 Posts
Hi Juro: As you say ;flyfishers are a inquisitive bunch, Since the Rio Accelerator line first came out about ten years ago I have been measuring line diameters at 2 foot intervals with a micrometer just to see how they differed. I made these measurments on the Accelerator,Windcutter,Sci Angler salmon DT,Sci Angler spey 8/9 as produced in 1997,and the Wulff TT lines in 7/8,10/11 and 11/12.
None of these lines were a true triangle taper, rather they were a long 20' taper which then expanded to a heavier level section,and then expanded to a level butt section,which then tapered to the running line diameter.
The Accelerator was unique since it included a short smaller diameter section of about 3 ' located at about 22 ' .Vincent believed that this hinge would aid in turning over the tip . He assumed that the line would be a aireal shoot out to the hinge and then the entire tip would turn over.
In contrast none of the other lines had this hinge and apparently assumed that the line tip would roll out on the water to finish the cast.
Actual water trials showed that this in fact happened .The Wulff TT line seemed to do this better than any others but it appeared to be more a function of the line coating rather than diameter taper.
It seems to me that any advances will occur in the tip turnover area. Regardless of what changes in the line will be made it will still require proper technique and rod control; to achieve good turnover. When the shoot portion of the cast has been completed it is essential that the rod continue to be pressed forward down to a horizontal position to make this turnover. The pressure itself is a combination of arm pressure combined with a forward bend from the waist and completes the weight transfer to the leading foot. One thing I have noted in carefully watching the best of speycasters is that as the final rollout of the tip occurs the end of the line shoots forward very suddenly just like the head of a snake striking. It suggests to me that there is still a significant amount of energy preserned in the cast to allow this to happen.
None of these lines were a true triangle taper, rather they were a long 20' taper which then expanded to a heavier level section,and then expanded to a level butt section,which then tapered to the running line diameter.
The Accelerator was unique since it included a short smaller diameter section of about 3 ' located at about 22 ' .Vincent believed that this hinge would aid in turning over the tip . He assumed that the line would be a aireal shoot out to the hinge and then the entire tip would turn over.
In contrast none of the other lines had this hinge and apparently assumed that the line tip would roll out on the water to finish the cast.
Actual water trials showed that this in fact happened .The Wulff TT line seemed to do this better than any others but it appeared to be more a function of the line coating rather than diameter taper.
It seems to me that any advances will occur in the tip turnover area. Regardless of what changes in the line will be made it will still require proper technique and rod control; to achieve good turnover. When the shoot portion of the cast has been completed it is essential that the rod continue to be pressed forward down to a horizontal position to make this turnover. The pressure itself is a combination of arm pressure combined with a forward bend from the waist and completes the weight transfer to the leading foot. One thing I have noted in carefully watching the best of speycasters is that as the final rollout of the tip occurs the end of the line shoots forward very suddenly just like the head of a snake striking. It suggests to me that there is still a significant amount of energy preserned in the cast to allow this to happen.
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Bending from the waist
LA Smithers,
I read your post and question one comment where you indicate that turing over the tip occurs by continuing the rod tip down with a bend of the waist. From watching Derek Brown's tape he indicates there should be no bend from the waist at all. You rock back and forth by sliding the hips back and forth transferring weight from from the rear leg to the forward leg to help lengthen the acceleration stroke but the actual casting is only done with the arms with the upper body straight. Both Way and Steve also stressed this at the Rogue clinic.
The key item I learned at that class was the firing position. I do not use much drift when casting with a single handed rod and can get very long casts with litlle drift. However, when spey casting, it is critical to have the arm back as far as it can comfortably go rather than out in front. Also the hand should be opposite the ear rather than up above head level. If, at the same time, you transfer weight back and forth from rear to forward leg you can generate extrreme power with little effort and really start to move tremenodus lengths of line.
LA Smithers,
I read your post and question one comment where you indicate that turing over the tip occurs by continuing the rod tip down with a bend of the waist. From watching Derek Brown's tape he indicates there should be no bend from the waist at all. You rock back and forth by sliding the hips back and forth transferring weight from from the rear leg to the forward leg to help lengthen the acceleration stroke but the actual casting is only done with the arms with the upper body straight. Both Way and Steve also stressed this at the Rogue clinic.
The key item I learned at that class was the firing position. I do not use much drift when casting with a single handed rod and can get very long casts with litlle drift. However, when spey casting, it is critical to have the arm back as far as it can comfortably go rather than out in front. Also the hand should be opposite the ear rather than up above head level. If, at the same time, you transfer weight back and forth from rear to forward leg you can generate extrreme power with little effort and really start to move tremenodus lengths of line.
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Spey Clinic Cast
In addition to Rick's comment on the (drift) rearmost firnig position and the change of weight from rear to front, the other thing I picked up from Way and Steve's casting style was the rod position at the "stop" end of the cast. Rather than the conventional stop at the 10 o'clock postion. their stop seems to be much lower. So much so that you may be left wondering 'why is this working"? When seen in slow motion (through the wonders of digital video) however, you see the rod tip fully loaded. It then unloads sending a shock wave as the tip first recoils towards the water, back upwards , and finally dampens at the straight position. this double shock wave travels the length of the line and when it catches up with the main loop, actually accelerates, the energy being combined to straighten out the final turn over. Amazing!
In addition to Rick's comment on the (drift) rearmost firnig position and the change of weight from rear to front, the other thing I picked up from Way and Steve's casting style was the rod position at the "stop" end of the cast. Rather than the conventional stop at the 10 o'clock postion. their stop seems to be much lower. So much so that you may be left wondering 'why is this working"? When seen in slow motion (through the wonders of digital video) however, you see the rod tip fully loaded. It then unloads sending a shock wave as the tip first recoils towards the water, back upwards , and finally dampens at the straight position. this double shock wave travels the length of the line and when it catches up with the main loop, actually accelerates, the energy being combined to straighten out the final turn over. Amazing!
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1,771 Posts
Per the last three posts.... GREAT READING LAS/Rick/JD!
As far as the line, guess all I know so far is that it's peach colored :eyecrazy: extended belly, no power hinge and slightly longer than an Accellerator. When it comes out I'm sure all the Speypages gang will put it through it's trials and Dana will post an unbiased and informative review on his site.
Juro
As far as the line, guess all I know so far is that it's peach colored :eyecrazy: extended belly, no power hinge and slightly longer than an Accellerator. When it comes out I'm sure all the Speypages gang will put it through it's trials and Dana will post an unbiased and informative review on his site.
Juro
Juro, the accelerator is @ 75-77ft of belly I believe and the new lines from SA are more than just slightly longer in that they will be up to 105-110 of belly, depending on line size. I am not comparing these two lines in anyway just stating the obvious difference. How much line do you usually have out when you cast your double taper lines? The new lines will allow much more line to be lifted and cast than any other commercial line out there, but still have the ability to cast short very easilly. When the lines become available commercially I am sure that we will hear danas unbiased comments, but in the meen time the humble comments of those who have tried the lines will have to suffice.
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3,042 Posts
Mending 100' casts
While I have not cast the SA line, I fish a custom line that some feel is the "model" for it. The Derek Brown Speydriver has the extended front belly that seems to be the key to the SA line, therefore, I feel pretty confident talking about the casting and fishing characteristics of this style of line.
The design of the long belly line is such that the belly has the mass to turn the fly at 120-130'. It WILL do it! However, as you note, there are not too many places where 130' fishing cast is needed. On the Thompson or the Snake (or the Niagara for that matter) there are. If you need to fish at these kinds of distances and don't want to spend the time stripping a head, then these lines will do it.
While I have not cast the SA line, I fish a custom line that some feel is the "model" for it. The Derek Brown Speydriver has the extended front belly that seems to be the key to the SA line, therefore, I feel pretty confident talking about the casting and fishing characteristics of this style of line.
The design of the long belly line is such that the belly has the mass to turn the fly at 120-130'. It WILL do it! However, as you note, there are not too many places where 130' fishing cast is needed. On the Thompson or the Snake (or the Niagara for that matter) there are. If you need to fish at these kinds of distances and don't want to spend the time stripping a head, then these lines will do it.
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3,620 Posts
EMail from Bruce Richards
"No, release is not a year away. The lines are nearly ready for production, should be complete in about a week. We will probably not have the proper packaging for them, but I'm sure few people care. You won't have to cut and splice your own, my goal is to have lines available for sale before the Sandy River event. Keep in touch, I'll give you updates.
Bruce"
This was Bruce's reply to my query about when the lines would be ready and if I was going to have to cut and splice my own.
"No, release is not a year away. The lines are nearly ready for production, should be complete in about a week. We will probably not have the proper packaging for them, but I'm sure few people care. You won't have to cut and splice your own, my goal is to have lines available for sale before the Sandy River event. Keep in touch, I'll give you updates.
Bruce"
This was Bruce's reply to my query about when the lines would be ready and if I was going to have to cut and splice my own.
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